BoxRec

witherspoon wrote:Coz I love the guy.

He's one of my favourite fighters and I put him in this thread. I put him in this thread and you can't do jack about it.

witherspoon wrote:Coz I love the guy.

He's one of my favourite fighters and I put him in this thread. I put him in this thread and you can't do jack about it.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Carlos ortiz is the clear #1 here.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nice list with the exception of leaving out Escobar. He was certainly greater than Rosario or Camacho. Guys like Cotto & calderon are worth a look at the bottom end as well.

King Carlos wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nice list with the exception of leaving out Escobar. He was certainly greater than Rosario or Camacho. Guys like Cotto & calderon are worth a look at the bottom end as well.

Calderon might make the bottom end of a top 20.

Also, to the poster of that most recent list, are we considering half-breeds in these rankings? Cocoa Kid was half American, half Rican. Would that mean that the list of greatest Mexicans would allow for Mexican-Americans?

And Basora may well rank ahead of Trinidad, come to think of it.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: The Mosley win you mentioned is better than any either of them had.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't see where he was handled with kid gloves. He fought guys like Bailey & Torres. I wouldn't place him ahead of Dejesus, but a case can made for him over Rosario or Camacho. The Mosley win you mentioned is better than any either of them had.

Counter-Puncher wrote:dats- there's a disconnect between Cotto's popularity, and his 'greatness' (or failure to quite hit those heaights), IMO, which is I think where you're coming from. plus his in-ring
skills weren't the kind that you get manlove for

Datsue wrote:I am going to open myself up for some flak here: apart from the fact that he's a gutsy crowd-pleaser, I have never really "got" the Miguel Cotto -love.

When I look at him I see a barely (in, like, elite terms) above-averagely skilled, robotic guy with decently heavy hands who was matched with the softest of kid gloves until the first Margarito fight, a massive weight-drainer who would simply be a division bigger than a lot of the guys he was up against (Judah, Torres, Pinto, Corley). He had a nice body attack, a decent left hook, a suspect chin & no right hand whatsoever.

When he was a lightwelter Hatton was fighting Tszyu. Cotto was getting wobbled all over the place by DeMarcus Corley. His current "renaissance" also strikes me as something of a sham, as if beating Yuri Foreman & the ambulatory carcasses of Mayorga & Margarito were anything more than beautiful PR-pieces.

I value his bravery, his commitment to the attack (as long as he physically outmatched someone, that is) & note his honed use of "professional" fouls (the body attack that landed mostly in the groin, delivered in combination amongst legitimate punches; just a personal peccadillo but it always makes me want to see someone just elbow anyone who fights that way. It annoys me unduly). Comes across well in interviews & stuff. Nice tatts.

But on a list of greatest Puerto Ricans ever? Nah, sorry. Looking at the bottom half of Borinken's list, I cannot see a case for him being greater than DeJesus (a far, far finer technical boxer with better wins, & also technique-wise a much better puncher), Trinidad (over-rated by some but FFS Trinidad legitimately destroyed unbeaten fighters of a similar calibre & size to himself), Edwin Rosario (again, a far better technical boxer -- although like Cotto, somewhat mechanical -- & a much better puncher, who defeated a much higher calibre of fighter) & Hector Camacho (who could've been far greater had he not been such a dickhead).

I cannot help but think a large amount of Cotto's high regard is based on the lad's personality & fighting style. Which is nice, but not really what I rate guys on, in an all-time sense.

EDIT: I will say beating a mid-thirties Shane Mosley is impressive. In the same way that Morrison & Briggs got the better of Foreman, & that was impressive too, but doesn't really strike me as what would happen were they to meet anywhere near their respective primes.

Borinken25 wrote:Why the hell people leaves out the likes of Jose Basora and Cocoa kid. I rank them both ahead of the more popular Trinidad.

Here is my list:
1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Wilfredo Gomez
3. Wilfredo Benitez
4. Pedro Montanez
5. Jose Basora (has a draw vs prime Robinson and win over Jake LaMotta) Do you seriously believe that Trinidad should rank over him. Basora and Cocoa Kid would have beaten Trinidad, of that I have little doubt.
6. Cocoa Kid
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Esteban De Jesus
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Hector Camacho