BoxRec

why did it never happen??,my memories a bit foggy these days,but jones would never commit to it and the big pole called him out for years,bearing in mind jones was still very handy in those days i never did understand why he would`nt fight him

jones had real talent i wished he fought nigel benn that would of been a cracker and should of retired after he beat john ruiz he'd already would of been inducted into the hall of fame instead of tarnishing his reputation.

Reminds me of a certain top-rated pound-for-pounder going around today.

Jones would have embarrassed him.

dan28uk wrote:jones had real talent i wished he fought nigel benn that would of been a cracker and should of retired after he beat john ruiz he'd already would of been inducted into the hall of fame instead of tarnishing his reputation.

Benn didnt want a bar of Jones, who already tarnished his rep by the time he battled Ruiz.

tommo100 wrote:why did it never happen??,my memories a bit foggy these days,but jones would never commit to it and the big pole called him out for years,bearing in mind jones was still very handy in those days i never did understand why he would`nt fight him

Probably had his people look into him, realised the guy had a pulse and looked elsewhere.

Ezzard wrote:

tommo100 wrote:why did it never happen??,my memories a bit foggy these days,but jones would never commit to it and the big pole called him out for years,bearing in mind jones was still very handy in those days i never did understand why he would`nt fight him

Probably had his people look into him, realised the guy had a pulse and looked elsewhere.

Has Roy lost that much credibility on his way down?

I don't want to lose perspective just because of my personal opinion of the guy.

I do think at his best he would have won that match.

Was it all smoke and mirrors? Go back and look at the tapes. He appears to be the real deal, right up until he gained and lost a lot of weight. Pretty remarkable skills and reflexes at the top of his game. I could see Dariusz having his lights turned out in the middle to late rounds.

Roy wanted nothing to do with Dariusz.

yes, that was my question,why jones avoided him,he would have beaten him quite easily imo,at the time jones was still awe inspiring

Yep, I knew that, but I thought it had to do with money, not boxing.

Michaelczewski meant nothing to Jones or the american press. In fact he meant nothing to anyone outside Germany and Poland. If the Germans really wanted it they should have made an offer Roy couldnt refuse as frankly at that time in the late 90s Roy was making good money for fighting foes who were competent but nothing special. Toney was his only superfight till he fought Ruiz. Part of that was Roy systematically cleaned out the LH division before anyone could even put together a few good wins.

He didnt fight Calzaghe which should have been his superfight of the late 90s very early 2000's. Thats more the pertinent question why didnt he fight Joe back in 2001. Sure Joe had a rep for pulling out of fights and was hardly at that time willing to take on the best americans.

I tend to think the Michaelczeski thing just wasnt meant to be no slur on either of them either way.

Dm simply refused to fight outside of Germany, so the bout would never happen! Jones would have easily dominated DM, which if you look over DM's career his title defense's are over C and B- fighters! Jones, in his prime, was one of the greatest fighters ever...period! Anyone that says different just simply do not like Jones personally, but anyone who has any "boxing sense" whatsoever, know that Jones was a one-of-akind fighter! He really was a middleweight who had to raise in weight to find competition...Sugar Ray Robinson did not have great success at light heavyweight, but I do rank Robinson as the best p4p fighter ever.

Jones is in the top ten discussion! As a middleweight Jones was absolutely brillant! A vicious puncher with unmatched speed and talent! Rarely ever did he lose a round! DM thought he was in the same class as Jones and felt he called the shots, so he would not come out of Germany and Jones would not go into Germany to face a possible decision...and rightly so! If Dm had really wanted the fight Jones made the compromise that he would fight in England, but DM refused! Jones would have dominated DM and likely would have stopped him late in the bout, but it would have been a lop-sided win for Jones...DM simply did not have the tools to handle Jones!

DM was a simple straight ahead fighter who compiled an impressive looking record in terms of numbers, but if a person really looks into the careers of his opposition they will quickly learn that going 47-0 is pretty easy when you constantly fight opposition that is a class, or two below you! DM hid behind the WBO belt! A look at the opponents each man faced and Jones was far, far more superior over said opposition than DM was and the opposition that Jones fought were actual true top ten ranked fighters...not a WBO top ten ranked!

Against Virgil Hill, DM won a decision...Jones knocked out Hill with one punch to the body. Montell Griffin...DM stopped him in 4, Jones in one and a loss in which Jones ko'd Griffin, but was DQ'd. Richard Hall, DM stopped on TKO due to swelling and another TKO, but both were close fights in which both fighters won nearly equal rounds...Jones did not lose a round in stopping Hall. Derrick Harmon was arguably the best win that DM had and that was an impressive win, but Jones had beat Harmon a year earlier...again...Jones did not lose a round against Harmon. Julio Cesar Gonzalez...DM losses a split decision and Jones wins a decision and again Jones wins nearly all except possibly one round! Jones was a true all-time great, DM was a solid fighter, but put DM against the likes of Tommy Loughran, Joey Maxim, Harold Johnson and a slew of other great light heavyweights and he losses! Jones against those same fighters wins a lot more than he losses!

Jones was really unbeatable for nearly 15 years and that was against the best that 160, 168 and 175 had to produce! Nigel Benn never wanted anything to do with Jones, nor did most other fighters who were trying to protect their record! Jones was the best super middleweight of all-time and he is top 5 best at both middleweight and light heavyweight! I think only Jones and Bob Fitzsimmons won both the middleweight world title and then heavyweight! If you don't like Jones that is understandable, but trying to claim that he was anything less than spectacular is simply just being dishonest! I cannot stand Floyd Mayweather Jr, but he is an all-time great and his record is stellar against top ranked opposition, but if I tried to claim that Mayweather, talent-wise, was simply average then I would be lying to myself and to others! Although I think he is a real jerk his talent is undeniable...and so was the talent of Roy Jones Jr.

What a load of crap on Jones moving weight to find competition.

Like Gonzalez?

Like Ruiz?

barry, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of Jone's Skills at his game best. I thought his downturn was probably a combination of age and foolish weight training. His defeat of Ruiz was a great exploitive moment in boxing! lol. But he paid a price IMHO...and went downhill from then. Maybe it was timed right due to his age. It is what it is. You can't deny that his day is over, and you can't deny that he was uniquely remarkable during his best days.

What do you think of a Jones vs Jimmy Bivins affair? I know you think that they were both top talents. And how about Jones vs Hagler and Monzon?

DM vs RJ in their primes is a non competitive affair I.M.H.O. If Jones was determined and focused, DM wins no rounds and probably ends up slumped. I think he would have dominated J.C. at that time as well. Or Sven....He really had no contemporaries with the possible exception of Toney whom he dominated in their one encounter. They may have had a more competitive fight down the road...if it would have been made.

Boxbuzz---very good post that pretty much states the actuality of the career of Jones! He had no contemporaries and after 15 years of rarely losing a round he went downhill...age does it to all fighters!

I think Jones would outpoint Bivins as well as Monzon and Hagler! Jones was a very hard hitter at 160 that along with his overall speed and ability would make him a stand out against most fighters and I don't think that Hagler, or Monzon had the one-punch power to end a fight! Hagler, Monzon and Jones are all top ten, most likely top 5 and throw in Harry Greb and Sugar Ray Robinson to complete the 5....I think Greb would give Jones the most trouble because he would simply "bulldog" Jones into a down and dirty brawl. Out of those four others Robinson had the best one-punch power, but he was also the picture image of the perfect fighter! But even up against those four greats I can easily see Jones, at his very best, outpointing every one of those four! I think all bouts would be competetive, but I see Jones' speed as being the deciding factor! Jones, Greb, Robinson, Hagler and Monzon are all among the all time greats of boxing and at their best any single one, on any given night could beat the other, but in a ten bout series I think Jones would come out with more wins.

Roy loses to practically any ATG light HW. Who the hell did Roy ever beat near the league of a Harold Johnson or Jimmy Bivins?
Harmon? Gonzales? Woods? Grffith? Hill?

The best opponent Roy ever fought who wasn't completly weight drained was a before-he-reached his peak Hopkins, and that was a competitive fight; clear win for Roy, but he didn't dominate . . that showed that vs a true class fighter, Roy won't look like the magic man he looked vs the policeman and garbage collectors he regularly fought, especially once he moved up to 175. And the best guy he fought at 175, Tarver, he lost 2-1 in. And he had no 'drained' excuses for their rematch.

I spaced on Hopkins...you have to consider him a contemporary for sure...as Toney. But I think they faced each other at near prime on behalf of either man.

I would agree with Dempsey that Roy would fall short regarding a challenge, of Bivins and for my money Monzon. I'm not as certain about Hagler. But the one serious wild card here, is just how vulnerable he MAY have ALWAYS been regarding his chin. It would have been great to see Monzon's uncanny targeting vs Jones evasive reflex speed. But I'm thinking it has at least a possibility of ending up in sort of a Barrera/Hamed moment.

Tarver trained and focused on all of Roy's weaknesses and was simply their when Roy fell in my estimation. The perfect storm favoring Antonio.

But the truly unknown aspect is just how vulnerable that chin of Roy's was, but he sure was able to protect it well for a very long time.

Jones barely lost a single round before losing to Tarver yet that's conveniently overlooked. I doubt anyone who was chinny could get through 40 odd fights without someone cracking it. And if you believe all the recent crap about his chin being bad then surely that's a testament to his pre Tarver career? I also remember seeing a HW in John Ruiz land one on the button and nothing happened

p.s Toney was beaten fair and square by Jones and so was Hopkins. Hopkins was also around 28 at the time and was the more experienced of the 2

I reckon re fighting the Haglers and Monzons etc, his biggest problem may have been going the 15 round distance. Most of the top guys would have still been there in the later rounds and if Jones was still there then he would have slowed in those last 3. It would have been interesting that's for sure

The fight never materialized because none of them was really interested in it. DM had his WBO belt and was big star in Germany, so there was no reason for him to fight RJJ in US (where he was relatively unknown) and lose the belt he instead defended 20+ times. And fighting in Germany was not good option for RJJ for numerous reasons.

Barry, I had a feeling you are a bit harsh on DM - it looks like you are blaming him simply for not being as good as RJJ. OK, he was nowhere close to prime RJJ (well, who was?), still you can make a case he was no2 at LHW for quite a long time. His opponents were not only C and B level fighters either... some of them are even the same fighters RJJ fought (Hall, Hill, Harmon, Griffin).

bollox wrote:Jones barely lost a single round before losing to Tarver yet that's conveniently overlooked. I doubt anyone who was chinny could get through 40 odd fights without someone cracking it. And if you believe all the recent crap about his chin being bad then surely that's a testament to his pre Tarver career? I also remember seeing a HW in John Ruiz land one on the button and nothing happened

p.s Toney was beaten fair and square by Jones and so was Hopkins. Hopkins was also around 28 at the time and was the more experienced of the 2

I reckon re fighting the Haglers and Monzons etc, his biggest problem may have been going the 15 round distance. Most of the top guys would have still been there in the later rounds and if Jones was still there then he would have slowed in those last 3. It would have been interesting that's for sure

Agree with the first paragraph totally.
Dont agree with Hopkins being more experienced in 1993, that Hopkins was far less experienced hadnt had an amateur career to speak of, been in jail etc, started late etc.

Going the 15 round distance wouldnt have been his biggest problem with the monzons and Haglers. His biggest problem would have been those guys would have taught him a boxing lesson and his unorthodox style would have been like a big bouncing off a windshield. Hagler dealt handily with a Hearns who was in 85, as fast as RJJ in his peak, perhaps faster and a harder taller rangier puncher.

Del Valle dropped him.

He was fighting largely hand-picked dross at 175, it's why HBO canned his contract in the end.

Battle of egos. RJJ felt he was the man and wasn't going over to Germany to get screwed. DM felt HE was the man and wouldn't leave Germany. That's the long & short of it. Both were making a mint at home.

Ultimately RJJ took out Hill with one punch after DM outpointed him over 12. DM made a little career out of feeding on RJJ left overs until Julio Cesar Gonzalez, who RJJ had dropped repeatedly & dominated, went over to Germany and beat ended DM's WBO 'reign'.

i think it was in a way convenient for both that the
fight never happened. for jones it was a potentially
dangerous fight with limited merit, since dariusz
was a no name in the US.

for dariusz it was in a way convenient to call out the
biggest name in boxing without really having to live
up to the challenge.

i think dariusz would have been one of the more
difficult fights of jones', since he went forward in
a pretty confident, yet skilled way. but dariusz chose
overall to stay at home and have that kind of local
european career with an international title.

dempseyfire wrote:Roy loses to practically any ATG light HW. Who the hell did Roy ever beat near the league of a Harold Johnson or Jimmy Bivins?
Harmon? Gonzales? Woods? Grffith? Hill?

The best opponent Roy ever fought who wasn't completly weight drained was a before-he-reached his peak Hopkins, and that was a competitive fight; clear win for Roy, but he didn't dominate . . that showed that vs a true class fighter, Roy won't look like the magic man he looked vs the policeman and garbage collectors he regularly fought, especially once he moved up to 175. And the best guy he fought at 175, Tarver, he lost 2-1 in. And he had no 'drained' excuses for their rematch.

orbtastic wrote:Del Valle dropped him.

He was fighting largely hand-picked dross at 175, it's why HBO canned his contract in the end.