BoxRec

Posted: **11 Mar 2012, 20:12**

Hated and beloved champ in history, who are they?

Im tempted to say Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. Agree?

There are good cases for Louis and Ali (70's) as most beloved, but probably no one was as reviled as Johnson --- ironically, maybe Ali (60's) at a stretch, but I doubt it.

Got to be Charles as the most under-appreciated champ, at least among the Heavies. Other under-valued champs in their time, like Tunney, Liston and Holmes, seem to get their due now. Charles, not in his time or ours.

Posted: **11 Mar 2012, 23:10**

Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay may be the only fighter who fit in both categories: Many love him, but many hate him as evidenced on this Forum.

Posted: **11 Mar 2012, 23:55**

raylawpc wrote:Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay may be the only fighter who fit in both categories: Many love him, but many hate him as evidenced on this Forum.

I was thinking more in the context of their times.

Now, guys like Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, and as you say, Ali, are good ones.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 00:03**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
raylawpc wrote:Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay may be the only fighter who fit in both categories: Many love him, but many hate him as evidenced on this Forum.
I was thinking more in the context of their times.

Now, guys like Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, and as you say, Ali, are good ones.

I submit the love/hate many felt for Clay/Ali was even more acute in his time. Time tends to mellow.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 00:29**

I would say Ruiz, but i know Irene won't accept paper titlists.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 00:36**

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I would say Ruiz, but i know Irene won't accept paper titlists.

Thats true, Im a prick about the distinction between champions and the many pretenders who surround them.

Would you say Ruiz was despised on the level of Johnson, though?

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 00:50**

Jack Johnson was probably the most hated, although Max Schmelling might ahve been a good shot, prior to the 2nd Joe Louis fight.

But often Jack Johnson's popularity is very underestimated. He had his share of fans, even white ones.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 5B808DF1D3

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 00:54**

raylawpc wrote:Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay may be the only fighter who fit in both categories: Many love him, but many hate him as evidenced on this Forum.

Don't forget Tyson. Average fans think him to be a God who would still be champ if Cus was alive . Boxing experts tend to believe him to be overrated .

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 01:15**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I would say Ruiz, but i know Irene won't accept paper titlists.
Thats true, Im a prick about the distinction between champions and the many pretenders who surround them.

Would you say Ruiz was despised on the level of Johnson, though?

He obviously didn't have to deal with the kind of hate that Johnson did. But I've only encountered 1 or 2 people that don't hate Ruiz in like 7 years of posting on the internet.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 09:05**

There's only a tiny, tiny segment of hardcore curmudgeons who hate DLH & the like, surely? I appreciate we are the hardcore curmudgeons, but a bit of perspective, please; there really aren't that many of us & we represent a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of boxing fans, which is a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of sports fans in general.

It was the same in England when Ricky Hatton was fighting, he'd draw 50,000 to watch him fight Juan Fvcking Lazcano & you'd still get posts on here about how he "wasn't popular" or people "couldn't stand him". When it comes to universal hate, someone like Johnson or Ali who genuinely pissed off large tranches of people are surely the only candidates, because they actually inspired large scale dissent, rather than the (relative) few of us who see something popular & immediately get it stuck sideways in our craw.

Every "pretty boy" fighter ever would've pulled down the same opprobrium from us lot if the Interweb was involved. We'd all be going on about how Art Aragon was a fraud & how much we hated him, & it still wouldn't have affected the fact that he would never ever draw the number one spot as most hated anything.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 11:08**

The End wrote:
raylawpc wrote:Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay may be the only fighter who fit in both categories: Many love him, but many hate him as evidenced on this Forum.
Don't forget Tyson. Average fans think him to be a God who would still be champ if Cus was alive . Boxing experts tend to believe him to be overrated .

There are also many experts who who feel he was great.

Gil Clancy once said: "I personally don't like the man, but there's no denying he was a great fighter at his best, and I personally have right up there with the very best of them".

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 16:36**

Datsue wrote:There's only a tiny, tiny segment of hardcore curmudgeons who hate DLH & the like, surely? I appreciate we are the hardcore curmudgeons, but a bit of perspective, please; there really aren't that many of us & we represent a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of boxing fans, which is a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of sports fans in general.

It was the same in England when Ricky Hatton was fighting, he'd draw 50,000 to watch him fight Juan Fvcking Lazcano & you'd still get posts on here about how he "wasn't popular" or people "couldn't stand him". When it comes to universal hate, someone like Johnson or Ali who genuinely pissed off large tranches of people are surely the only candidates, because they actually inspired large scale dissent, rather than the (relative) few of us who see something popular & immediately get it stuck sideways in our craw.

Every "pretty boy" fighter ever would've pulled down the same opprobrium from us lot if the Interweb was involved. We'd all be going on about how Art Aragon was a fraud & how much we hated him, & it still wouldn't have affected the fact that he would never ever d
raw the number one spot as most hated anything.

I dont know. In more than ten years of posting, it is by FAR the norm for me to encounter WAY more haters than fans of De La Hoya.

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 18:38**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
Datsue wrote:There's only a tiny, tiny segment of hardcore curmudgeons who hate DLH & the like, surely? I appreciate we are the hardcore curmudgeons, but a bit of perspective, please; there really aren't that many of us & we represent a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of boxing fans, which is a tiny tiny insignificant part of the demographic of sports fans in general.

It was the same in England when Ricky Hatton was fighting, he'd draw 50,000 to watch him fight Juan Fvcking Lazcano & you'd still get posts on here about how he "wasn't popular" or people "couldn't stand him". When it comes to universal hate, someone like Johnson or Ali who genuinely pissed off large tranches of people are surely the only candidates, because they actually inspired large scale dissent, rather than the (relative) few of us who see something popular & immediately get it stuck sideways in our craw.

Every "pretty boy" fighter ever would've pulled down the same opprobrium from us lot if the Interweb was involved. We'd all be going on about how Art Aragon was a fraud & how much we hated him, & it still wouldn't have affected the fact that he would never ever d
raw the number one spot as most hated anything.
I dont know. In more than ten years of posting, it is by FAR the norm for me to encounter WAY more haters than fans of De La Hoya.

Could because he was a FLUKE?

Posted: **12 Mar 2012, 23:32**

Holy sh!t, I cant stop laughing

That career is one hell of a fluke.

Posted: **14 Mar 2012, 19:04**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Holy sh!t, I cant stop laughing

That career is one hell of a fluke.

DLH cannot carry the all-time greats jockstraps

Posted: **15 Mar 2012, 03:29**

Johnson has to be by far the most hated cause times were different then.Louis is probably the most loved

Posted: **15 Mar 2012, 17:50**

I'll go British...

#1 most hated Bugner.
#1 most loved Cooper.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 02:19**

keithmoonhangover wrote:I'll go British...

#1 most hated Bugner.
#1 most loved Cooper.

Do you think Cooper is more loved than Hatton? I have never seen boxing fans that loved thier fighter as much as The fans of Ricky. They would be singing that song religiously thru the whole fight and even when he lost that would not stop them. That is the definition of Fans plus they would invade other countries by the thousands in support of thier guy. I was not a big fan of Hatton but I was a fan of his fans

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 16:17**

scallum wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:I'll go British...

#1 most hated Bugner.
#1 most loved Cooper.
Do you think Cooper is more loved than Hatton? I have never seen boxing fans that loved thier fighter as much as The fans of Ricky. They would be singing that song religiously thru the whole fight and even when he lost that would not stop them. That is the definition of Fans plus they would invade other countries by the thousands in support of thier guy. I was not a big fan of Hatton but I was a fan of his fans

There is no "Sir Ricky" . . . Cooper was universally loved in Great Britain.

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