BoxRec

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1896#

Here is a short account of an exhibition with Magnin. This one appears to be listed on CBZ as an exhibition, but it seems that Manin was a midget and the exhibition was just a bit of a joke more than any decent display of sparring or skills.

And here is another interesting article on early James Joseph Jeffries. Two interesting things raised. Firstly, at a time where Jim Jeffries is usually only credited with having two fights, here it is said that he actually has had 20 prize fights.

And secondly, by my count, his 19 years of age, means Jim's commonly accepted birth date seems wrong. (unless i have done my maths wrong). This would tie in with Jeffries account of the first griffin fight which says he was just 17 years of age at the time.

If accepted as correct, both reports would add a little to the Jeffries legacy, although i suppose by contrast, given that it would make him younger against Johnson and more experienced when he first one the crown, by the same token they do take away a little as well. Still i find this sort of thing very interesting to look at.

Jeffries is the hardest Heavy to figure in terms of how he'd fare against other greats, IMO.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1897#

Here is a couple of different accounts of Corbetts famous alleged knockdown of a young Jeffries in sparring. It has both sides of the stories, although you probably have to take the stories with a grain of salt, because of the vested interests each had at the time these stories were reported.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1897#

This one is an interesting account of Jeffries Van Bus Kirk. It is interesting because it suggests that Jeffries was using a similar fighting style to corbett.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1897#

And there is a pretty good round by round account of Jeffries fight with Baker. Baker sounds like he tried hard, even if he was outclassed.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1897

This one has jeffries squaring off against a clever 260lb fighter.

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1896#

Here is a short account of an exhibition with Magnin. This one appears to be listed on CBZ as an exhibition, but it seems that Manin was a midget and the exhibition was just a bit of a joke more than any decent display of sparring or skills.

And here is another interesting article on early James Joseph Jeffries. Two interesting things raised. Firstly, at a time where Jim Jeffries is usually only credited with having two fights, here it is said that he actually has had 20 prize fights.

And secondly, by my count, his 19 years of age, means Jim's commonly accepted birth date seems wrong. (unless i have done my maths wrong). This would tie in with Jeffries account of the first griffin fight which says he was just 17 years of age at the time.

If accepted as correct, both reports would add a little to the Jeffries legacy, although i suppose by contrast, given that it would make him younger against Johnson and more experienced when he first one the crown, by the same token they do take away a little as well. Still i find this sort of thing very interesting to look at.

Jeffries middle named was Jackson not Joseph.

raylawpc wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1896#

Here is a short account of an exhibition with Magnin. This one appears to be listed on CBZ as an exhibition, but it seems that Manin was a midget and the exhibition was just a bit of a joke more than any decent display of sparring or skills.

And here is another interesting article on early James Joseph Jeffries. Two interesting things raised. Firstly, at a time where Jim Jeffries is usually only credited with having two fights, here it is said that he actually has had 20 prize fights.

And secondly, by my count, his 19 years of age, means Jim's commonly accepted birth date seems wrong. (unless i have done my maths wrong). This would tie in with Jeffries account of the first griffin fight which says he was just 17 years of age at the time.

If accepted as correct, both reports would add a little to the Jeffries legacy, although i suppose by contrast, given that it would make him younger against Johnson and more experienced when he first one the crown, by the same token they do take away a little as well. Still i find this sort of thing very interesting to look at.

Jeffries middle named was Jackson not Joseph.

Yeah but the article says Joseph just a bit of a typo/assumption one would presume. One of the articles the articles i read last night referred to Jamie Corbett. Looks very strange, but technically correct, i suppose.

Boilermaker wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... es----1896#

Here is a short account of an exhibition with Magnin. This one appears to be listed on CBZ as an exhibition, but it seems that Manin was a midget and the exhibition was just a bit of a joke more than any decent display of sparring or skills.

And here is another interesting article on early James Joseph Jeffries. Two interesting things raised. Firstly, at a time where Jim Jeffries is usually only credited with having two fights, here it is said that he actually has had 20 prize fights.

And secondly, by my count, his 19 years of age, means Jim's commonly accepted birth date seems wrong. (unless i have done my maths wrong). This would tie in with Jeffries account of the first griffin fight which says he was just 17 years of age at the time.

If accepted as correct, both reports would add a little to the Jeffries legacy, although i suppose by contrast, given that it would make him younger against Johnson and more experienced when he first one the crown, by the same token they do take away a little as well. Still i find this sort of thing very interesting to look at.

Jeffries middle named was Jackson not Joseph.

Yeah but the article says Joseph just a bit of a typo/assumption one would presume. One of the articles the articles i read last night referred to Jamie Corbett. Looks very strange, but technically correct, i suppose.

According to the U.S. Census Records and the World War I Draft Registration databases, Jim Jeffries was invariably listed as being born about 1875. In other words, I would take the assertion that Jeffries was born more than a year later than 1875 with a grain of salt.

In regards to possible unrecorded bouts of Jim Jeffries, it is possible that he had a number of them. However, one should not accept much of the information in the 1890s newspapers about boxers as fact.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:According to the U.S. Census Records and the World War I Draft Registration databases, Jim Jeffries was invariably listed as being born about 1875. In other words, I would take the assertion that Jeffries was born more than a year later than 1875 with a grain of salt.

In regards to possible unrecorded bouts of Jim Jeffries, it is possible that he had a number of them. However, one should not accept much of the information in the 1890s newspapers about boxers as fact.

- Chuck Johnston

I do not know about the Draft Registration databases or the Census Records, as i have never seen them. Though i would have thought that if they were around, they would have had an exact birth date which would have put any rumours to rest completely. The only reason i thought that this was interesting was that the date of birth does tie in exactly with Jeffries claims that he beat Hank Griffin on debut as a 17 year old. Their are of course other explanations, such as the date of the Griffin bout being wrong. It does seem a long bow that to think that no one bothered to confirm Jims birthdate with him, but as i said, it does gel with other things so nothing is impossible.

I agree with what you say about taking old newspaper reports as fact. However, i do think it is quite clear that Jeffries has a fair few unrecorded bouts, in fact i have posted reports of quite a few of these in the past. In one of the "unrecorded' fights, it was reported that the opponent actually died as a result of blows (this was when he was in Europe touring as world champion, supposedly). In reality, I think that the 20 fights reported here probably includes Amateur fights and exhibitions. And in those days, there was a fine line between such fights and a fight as we know it. I also think that most researchers are too quick to write off the existence of many fights, just because they were not reported in papers of the day. Unlike today, the reality was that in those days it was not uncommon for fights to simply not get reported. It was after all in many places, an illegal activity.

Still, i do find the report of 20 fights interesting, because Jeffries in his fight with Dan Long and even before that seems to have been talked very highly of, and praised very highly. Certainly moreso, than his known record would suggest. I think it is quite obvious that he had a few extra scraps to earn that reputation. Although, as i said whether they were better classified as gym wars or amateur fights is a different story.

Boilermaker,

I don't know of anyone who has found a contemporary description of Jim Jeffries' alleged professional debut vs. Hank Griffin. There is speculation if such a bout took place, it was staged in a private matter. If the bout took place publicly in Los Angeles, I would think that at least one of the Los Angeles newspapers would have some mention of it. There were various descriptions about the alleged bout in newspaper articles about Jeffries when he was already a well-known fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Boilermaker,

I don't know of anyone who has found a contemporary description of Jim Jeffries' alleged professional debut vs. Hank Griffin. There is speculation if such a bout took place, it was staged in a private matter. If the bout took place publicly in Los Angeles, I would think that at least one of the Los Angeles newspapers would have some mention of it. There were various descriptions about the alleged bout in newspaper articles about Jeffries when he was already a well-known fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

I think it happened. Griffin admitted that he fought Jeffries (but claimed the result was a draw). Based on all the available evidence I've read, the fight was a private bout to settle a bet, and took place in the back room of a bar. In Two-Fisted Jeff, the claim is made that Jeffries' mother saw an account of the fight in the newspaper, and forced Jeff to swear he wouldn't fight again until he was 21. But there is so much nonsense in that book that one can doubt the story.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... riffin----#

Here is an unrecorded fight between Jeffries and an unnamed Mexican from Bakersfield. It seems that Jeffries didnt get a KO and wasnt all that impressive.

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... riffin----#

Here is an unrecorded fight between Jeffries and an unnamed Mexican from Bakersfield. It seems that Jeffries didnt get a KO and wasnt all that impressive.

You need to reread your story. Jeffries wasn't on the card.

and one more between Jeffries and Dan Long, although this was clearly an exhibition only.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... riffin----

raylawpc wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... riffin----#

Here is an unrecorded fight between Jeffries and an unnamed Mexican from Bakersfield. It seems that Jeffries didnt get a KO and wasnt all that impressive.

You need to reread your story. Jeffries wasn't on the card.

I do that sometimes.

Do you read it to say that Dan Long was on the card and not jeffries?

It is pretty poorly written. Though after looking at a similar report (not linked) you are probably correct. Obviously the Mexican i referred to fought Welch and not either fighter.

Boilermaker wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... riffin----#

Here is an unrecorded fight between Jeffries and an unnamed Mexican from Bakersfield. It seems that Jeffries didnt get a KO and wasnt all that impressive.

You need to reread your story. Jeffries wasn't on the card.

I do that sometimes.

Do you read it to say that Dan Long was on the card and not jeffries?

It is pretty poorly written. Though after looking at a similar report (not linked) you are probably correct. Obviously the Mexican i referred to fought Welch and not either fighter.

Yeah, and against Hank Griffin. After his brief boxing career, Long went on to a distinguished career on the LA police department, and retired as a captain. If memory serves, he was a pallbearer at Jeff's funeral in 1953.

Chuck1052 wrote:According to the U.S. Census Records and the World War I Draft Registration databases, Jim Jeffries was invariably listed as being born about 1875. In other words, I would take the assertion that Jeffries was born more than a year later than 1875 with a grain of salt.

In regards to possible unrecorded bouts of Jim Jeffries, it is possible that he had a number of them. However, one should not accept much of the information in the 1890s newspapers about boxers as fact.

- Chuck Johnston

The confusion about Jeffries' birthdate is interesting but not usual.
In researching our biography of Jeffries great ring rival and friend, Tom Sharkey, we found that some records about Sharkey's birthdate began to go wrong when he signed up for the US Navy:

"Sharkey enlisted on November 28, 1892, two days after his 19th birthday.
He made no attempt to hide the fact that he was Irish-born but he did lie about his age, recording his date of birth as January 1, 1871.
Sharkey’s status as a foreign-born recruit would have made him far from unusual. In 1890 only 47 per cent of people serving in the US Navy were native-born.(5) And the fact that he was 19 would not have been an issue with the authorities. The Navy at that time had enlisted apprentices as young as 14 and “boys” who were younger still. It would not be until 1904 that the minimum age of enlistment would be raised to 17 with parents’ consent or 18 without it. It seems likely in Sharkey’s case that he worried about what he thought might be the enlistment age. It is possible that he did not know his exact birthdate or that he was hiding from home, as he once later claimed. Consequently, perhaps, he stated his home was Park Street, Dundalk."
I Fought Them All by Greg Lewis and Moira Sharkey

http://www.magicrat.co.uk/iFoughtThemAll.php
http://tomsharkey.blogspot.co.uk/

magicrat wrote:

Chuck1052 wrote:According to the U.S. Census Records and the World War I Draft Registration databases, Jim Jeffries was invariably listed as being born about 1875. In other words, I would take the assertion that Jeffries was born more than a year later than 1875 with a grain of salt.

In regards to possible unrecorded bouts of Jim Jeffries, it is possible that he had a number of them. However, one should not accept much of the information in the 1890s newspapers about boxers as fact.

- Chuck Johnston

The confusion about Jeffries' birthdate is interesting but not usual.
In researching our biography of Jeffries great ring rival and friend, Tom Sharkey, we found that some records about Sharkey's birthdate began to go wrong when he signed up for the US Navy:

"Sharkey enlisted on November 28, 1892, two days after his 19th birthday.
He made no attempt to hide the fact that he was Irish-born but he did lie about his age, recording his date of birth as January 1, 1871.
Sharkey’s status as a foreign-born recruit would have made him far from unusual. In 1890 only 47 per cent of people serving in the US Navy were native-born.(5) And the fact that he was 19 would not have been an issue with the authorities. The Navy at that time had enlisted apprentices as young as 14 and “boys” who were younger still. It would not be until 1904 that the minimum age of enlistment would be raised to 17 with parents’ consent or 18 without it. It seems likely in Sharkey’s case that he worried about what he thought might be the enlistment age. It is possible that he did not know his exact birthdate or that he was hiding from home, as he once later claimed. Consequently, perhaps, he stated his home was Park Street, Dundalk."
I Fought Them All by Greg Lewis and Moira Sharkey

http://www.magicrat.co.uk/iFoughtThemAll.php
http://tomsharkey.blogspot.co.uk/

There is no "confusion" over Jim Jeffries' birthdate. April 15, 1875. He never gave any other date, it's on his tombstone, and it matches up with every census.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... lagher----#

I think you are correct about the birthdate, but here is a little bit of Jeffreis unknown earlier career. this is from November 1894, which is a year before Jeffries is listed on CBZ as having had his debut fight with Hank Griffin. It ties in with Jeffries claims that he was 17 when he fought Griffin the first time. Note that in 1895, Jeffries was a heavyweight of some renown who has issued challengers to fight everyone according to this article.

This is a pretty interesting article. Joe Choynski wanted to fight Theodore Van Buskirk and Jim Jeffries on the same night and get paid only when he knocked both out!

And Joe McAuliffe tried to step in to fight Choynski instead. It shows how highly he was thought of, in that he was considered a better fighter than both of these guys.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a ... lagher----#