BoxRec

I'm sure it's been done before but I couldn't find it.

So here's mine.

Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali
Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight: Ezzard Charles
Super Middleweight: Roy Jones Jr.
Middleweight: Harry Greb
Light Middleweight: Thomas Hearns
Welterweight: Ray Robinson
Light Welterweight: Aaron Pryor
Light Weight: Joe Gans
Super Featherweight: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Featherweight: Willie Pep
Superbantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez
Bantamweight: Eder Jofre
SuperFlyweight: Khaosai Galaxy
Flyweight: Jimmy Wilde
Light Flyweight: Michael Carbajal
Minimumweight:Ricardo Lopez

Straw: Ricardo Lopez
Jr. Fly: Jung-Koo Chang
Fly: Jimmy Wilde all things considered probably (in a head to head sense I'd probably go with Harada, though, and Miguel Canto deserves a mention based on the quality of his reign).
Jr. Bantam: Jiro Watanabe, although there are plenty of options for #1 here, in fact it may be the most difficult class to separate the top guys.
Bantam: Eder Jofre, although someone like George Dixon might be just as good a choice.
Super Bantam: Wilfredo Gomez
Feather: Willie Pep
Super Feather: Alexis Arguello on accomplishments, but all things considered it may well be Floyd. I think he had the style to beat Arguello, anyway.
Light: Joe Gans as far as reign at the weight, Roberto Duran all things considered.
Jr. Welter: I'm gonna go with an outside choice and pick Duilio Loi
Welter: Ray Robinson
Jr. Middle: Either Tommy Hearns or Mike McCallum.
Middle: Carlos Monzon as far as reign at the weight, Harry Greb all things considered.
Super Middle: Roy Jones Jr.
Lt. Heavy: Ezzard Charles
Cruiser: Evander Holyfield
Heavy: Muhammad Ali

Straw: Lopez
Jr Fly: Gushiken
Fly: Villa
Jr Bantam: Tapia
Bantam: Jofre
Jr Feather: Morales
Feather: Armstrong
Jr Light: Mayweather
Light: Duran
Jr Welter: Benitez
Welter: Robinson
Jr Middle: Hearns
Middle: Hagler
Super Middle: Jones
Lt Heavy: Charles
Cruiser: Holyfield
Heavy: Louis

Mostly, very solid lists, guys. Nice.

HW: Louis
CW: Holyfield
LHW: Tunney
SMW: Jones
MW: Greb
JMW: McCallum
WW: Robinson
JWW: Locche (Cant believe this is his first shout!)
LW: Leonard
JLW: Arguello
FW: Pep (Armstrong right on his tail, Saddler third)
JFW: Gomez
BW: Jofre
JBW: Tapia
FW: Wilde
JFW: Carbajal
SW: Lopez

HEAVYWEIGHT: Muhammad Ali
CRUISERWEIGHT: Evander Holyfield
LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT: Ezzard Charles
SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT: Joe Calzaghe.....Weakest division in history
MIDDLEWEIGHT: Carlos Monzon
JR. MIDDLEWEIGHT OR SUPER WELTERWEIGHT: Mike McCallum
WELTERWEIGHT: Sugar Ray Robinson
JR WELTERWEIGHT: Aaron Pryor
LIGHTWEIGHT: Roberto Duran
JR. LIGHTWEIGHT: Flash Elorde
FEATHERWEIGHT: Willie Pep
SUPER BANTAMWEIGHT: Wilfredo Gomez
BANTAMWEIGHT: Eder Jofre
JR. BANTAMWEIGHT: Koxai Galaxy
FLYWEIGHT: Jimmy Wilde
JR. FLYWEIGHT: Myung Woo Yuh
STRAWWEIGHT: Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

You guys are having a lend if you think Pryor was better than Locche (or Benitez, for that matter).

For me

Heavyweight Muhammed Ali
Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight Roy Jones Jnr
Super Middleweight Joe Calzaghe
Middleweight Marvin Hagler
Light-Middleweight Not sure
Welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson
Light-Welterweight Julio Cesar Chavez Snr
Lightweight Roberto Duran[/b]

And that's all I can do, as a Brit I seldom watch anything below Lightweight.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:For me

Heavyweight Muhammed Ali
Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight Roy Jones Jnr
Super Middleweight Joe Calzaghe
Middleweight Marvin Hagler
Light-Middleweight Not sure
Welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson
Light-Welterweight Julio Cesar Chavez Snr
Lightweight Roberto Duran[/b]

And that's all I can do, as a Brit I seldom watch anything below Lightweight.

Chavez --- another guy better than Pryor (in terms of ability and resume both, although not by a lot in the former category) in his early-140 form.

Heavyweight: Joe Louis
Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield
Light Heavyweight: Ezzard Charles
Super Middleweight: Joe Calzague
Middleweight: Harry Greb
Light Middleweight: Thomas Hearns
Welterweight: Ray Robinson
Light Welterweight: Wilfred Benitez, Nicolino Locche, or Duilio Loi. Not sure who to pick.
Light Weight: Benny Leonard
Super Featherweight: Alexis Arguello
Featherweight: Willie Pep
Superbantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez
Bantamweight: Eder Jofre
SuperFlyweight: Not really sure who to pick here.
Flyweight: Jimmy Wilde
Light Flyweight: Jung Koo Chang
Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You guys are having a lend if you think Pryor was better than Locche (or Benitez, for that matter).

Now if i were basing it off of head to head I would have Benitez #1. I think Pryor gets underrated due to him being so overrated by the majority of people.

What're you basing it on, resume? Because I cant for a minute imagine Benitez or Locche not remaining unbeaten against Pryor's mediocre victims (which Pryor effectively managed). Even his jewel in the crown, the great Arguello, Im sure youd agree would not be able to beat either man I mentioned (horrible styles for Arguello to combat).

The rest of Pryor's victims? Play-things for Locche and Benitez. Pryor was a terrific fighter, but he quite clearly gets over-valued and while he is easily a top-5 JWW, he has no serious case for the #1 spot, and I attribute his selection there (which is common) to sheer ignorance to the comparatively obscure Locche (not stating that of you, specifically, but Pryor's status is quite clearly inflated piggy-backing on the familiarity of sharing an era with the likes of Duran and Leonard).

As magnificent defensively as Locche was (and he's the best I've seen on film, regardless of the relative lack of footage in comparison to guys like Pep, Whitaker, Benitez, Zapata, Lora, etc.), I can't help but feel that all things considered he gets a bit overrated. I think he may have been just too limited to have fared particularly well against the best boxer-punchers/all-arounders. It's also tough to know exactly what his record would've looked like without the Argentinian home-cooking that was so prevalent in the era. The scoring system was downright amateurish. Unless you won a fight by 4 points or more (or maybe it was more than 4 points, I'll have to check my source) it was automatically cast as a draw, which explains why so many Argentinian fighters' records are stacked to the brim with them.

From what I understand he should've lost a close, but clear one to Ortiz, but given the system it was scored a draw, as was every other close fight. I'll have to look into the Laguna one.

Still a great fighter, though. Beautiful to watch.

Hard to fault a man for losing to Ortiz, if true. Pryor sure would have.

I agree with the first part. No shame in losing a competitive bout to Ortiz. With Pryor we're always gonna be dealing with a lot of speculation. If I'm going with my eyes when I watch him, I see a beast. A guy who could've been a head to head nightmare for just about anyone at the weight. But then again we don't really have enough to go on and he ruined his own career. He's a guy where opinions differ widely and I accept that.

King Carlos wrote:As magnificent defensively as Locche was (and he's the best I've seen on film, regardless of the relative lack of footage in comparison to guys like Pep, Whitaker, Benitez, Zapata, Lora, etc.), I can't help but feel that all things considered he gets a bit overrated. I think he may have been just too limited to have fared particularly well against the best boxer-punchers/all-arounders. It's also tough to know exactly what his record would've looked like without the Argentinian home-cooking that was so prevalent in the era. The scoring system was downright amateurish. Unless you won a fight by 4 points or more (or maybe it was more than 4 points, I'll have to check my source) it was automatically cast as a draw, which explains why so many Argentinian fighters' records are stacked to the brim with them.

From what I understand he should've lost a close, but clear one to Ortiz, but given the system it was scored a draw, as was every other close fight. I'll have to look into the Laguna one.

Still a great fighter, though. Beautiful to watch.

Locche had no punch. He had amazing defensive skills, and no doubt would be considered one of the greatest P4P if he could have also banged when he needed to. That he went as far as he did with limited power is actually quite amazing.

I totally agree. Doesn't mean his lack of offensive talent wouldn't be a hindrance against the types I mentioned.

King Carlos wrote:I totally agree. Doesn't mean his lack of offensive talent wouldn't be a hindrance against the types I mentioned.

...and Pryor had no defense. Think that wouldnt hurt him against the greats?

King Carlos wrote:I totally agree. Doesn't mean his lack of offensive talent wouldn't be a hindrance against the types I mentioned.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall you mentioning anybody except Pryor and Ortiz. Are you implying that his lack of pop wouldn't have been a hinderance against Pryor and Ortiz?

I think with this lack of power, Locche would have found himself in deep water against ATG junior welters like Barney Ross and Chavez. He might have been able to pull it off, but I would not have bet on it.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I totally agree. Doesn't mean his lack of offensive talent wouldn't be a hindrance against the types I mentioned.

...and Pryor had no defense. Think that wouldnt hurt him against the greats?

Well, his cast iron jaw made up for it, for the most part. His exceptional offense was his defense, really. I'm not saying he'd beat everyone at the weight, necessarily, but head to head I think he was probably a more formidable fighter than Locche against a wide variety of styles.

With that said, stylistically a fight between he and Locche is a pretty tough call. It's difficult to picture.

Cast iron is extreme for his jaw, he was on the deck many times. Though most of them were the result of being off-balance, he was badly hurt against Johnson.

raylawpc wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I totally agree. Doesn't mean his lack of offensive talent wouldn't be a hindrance against the types I mentioned.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall you mentioning anybody except Pryor and Ortiz. Are you implying that his lack of pop wouldn't have been a hinderance against Pryor and Ortiz?

I think with this lack of power, Locche would have found himself in deep water against ATG junior welters like Barney Ross and Chavez. He might have been able to pull it off, but I would not have bet on it.

It was a hindrance against Ortiz. He didn't deserve the draw there and wouldn't have gotten it anywhere except for Argentina.

As for the types I mentioned, I was just speaking generally. I said earlier that his limited style would be an issue against the elite boxer-punchers/all-arounders. So, say Duran, Loi, Whitaker, Napoles, Canzoneri, Mayweather, Ambers, etc. And then you got guys like Buchanan, Larkin, etc. who'd have been very interesting styles match-ups.

Another fight of his I should look into is the Eddie Perkins bout. That could change my opinion around, as Perkins was an exceptional boxer-puncher and supremely underrated. Wish there was footage of that one.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Cast iron is extreme for his jaw, he was on the deck many times. Though most of them were the result of being off-balance, he was badly hurt against Johnson.

It's been a while since I've watched that one, but it never resonated with me as anything more than the typical flash knockdowns I was used to seeing in his bouts, which were, as you say, the result of his poor balance and overzealousness more than anything.

I guess I'll have to re-watch it.

King Carlos wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Cast iron is extreme for his jaw, he was on the deck many times. Though most of them were the result of being off-balance, he was badly hurt against Johnson.

It's been a while since I've watched that one, but it never resonated with me as anything more than the typical flash knockdowns I was used to seeing in his bouts, which were, as you say, the result of his poor balance and overzealousness more than anything.

I guess I'll have to re-watch it.

I haven't watched it in a while either, but I can promise you they weren't the typical off balance knockdowns. Either way, he didn't have one of the greatest chins I've ever seen.

I'd also point out that as poor as his balance was against lesser opponents that would surely play more of a hindrance to his porous defense against the elite than his chin would mask it. I don't think Whitaker or Mayweather could miss Aaron with a blindfold on. He was a favorite of mine, but it's another guy who gets credit for his prime ending as soon as his results were less impressive and gets credited with more wins than he ever earned.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

King Carlos wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Cast iron is extreme for his jaw, he was on the deck many times. Though most of them were the result of being off-balance, he was badly hurt against Johnson.

It's been a while since I've watched that one, but it never resonated with me as anything more than the typical flash knockdowns I was used to seeing in his bouts, which were, as you say, the result of his poor balance and overzealousness more than anything.

I guess I'll have to re-watch it.

I haven't watched it in a while either, but I can promise you they weren't the typical off balance knockdowns. Either way, he didn't have one of the greatest chins I've ever seen.

I just re-watched the first round. I didn't see anything I wasn't used to seeing. He got caught off balance, went down, popped back up and was running around the ring getting in Johnson's face while the ref counted. He also got stung with a big left hook later in the round, looked jogged for about one second, and then blasted Johnson into the ropes with combinations.

If he didn't have one of the greatest jaws, he definitely had some of the best, and quickest, recuperative powers.