BoxRec

Spinks SD15 Ali (1978)
Jofre MD15 Legra (1973)
Frazier UD15 Ali (1971)
Moore KO11 Durelle (1958)
Pep UD15 Saddler (1949)

Soldier Bartfield W10 Harry Greb (1917)
Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)
Neanderthal Ned K0 93 Gronk (3012 BC)

Pep UD15 Saddler (1949)
Moore KO11 Durelle (1958)
Jofre MD15 Legra (1973)
Spinks SD15 Ali (1978)
Frazier UD15 Ali (1971)

Frazier UD15 Ali
Pep UD15 Saddler
Spinks SD15 Ali
Jofre MD15 Legra
Moore KO 11 Durelle

Frazier UD15 Ali


Pep
Moore
Jofre
Spinks

BoxBuzz wrote:Soldier Bartfield W10 Harry Greb (1917)
Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)
Neanderthal Ned K0 93 Gronk (3012 BC)

Any ideas on what kind of crowd Ned and Gronk drew, BB?

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Soldier Bartfield W10 Harry Greb (1917)
Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)
Neanderthal Ned K0 93 Gronk (3012 BC)

Any ideas on what kind of crowd Ned and Gronk drew, BB?

Every man. woman and child from every damn cave for miles. Total sellout.

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Soldier Bartfield W10 Harry Greb (1917)
Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)
Neanderthal Ned K0 93 Gronk (3012 BC)

Any ideas on what kind of crowd Ned and Gronk drew, BB?

Every man. woman and child from every damn cave for miles. Total sellout.

but.....sadly it was recorded on stone tablets....long ago faded. We must assume they were the best of the best.

BoxBuzz wrote:but.....sadly it was recorded on stone tablets....long ago faded. We must assume they were the best of the best.

Unless Don Dunphy called it, Win Elliot the color man, Johnny Addie the ring announcer, and Gillette the sponsor, we can't be sure.

One which doesnt get anywhere near enough plaudits is Spinks-Ali I.

Thats a crazy result. People badly write it off.

....Yep, that one was a stunner. But it was fun if you happen to have lived in St Louis at the time. Which I did.

Ali thought he could phone it in.

I still wince at that SI cover photo of Leon the week after he won the title.

Hope Leon is doing okay.

Id love to have known the reactions of Young, Norton, and Foreman to that decision...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Id love to have known the reactions of Young, Norton, and Foreman to that decision...

That first Ali-Spinks was nationally televised and I remember thinking right before the decision was announced that this time Ali had pressed his luck way too much and the gift decisions given him in Norton III and Young would work against him this time.

Which it did.

Spinks legitimately won the fight, but so did Young and Norton in '77 against Ali, imo.

Why would you be curious about Foreman's reaction to the decision? Wasn't he off into retirement in February, 1978?

He was.

I meant I wonder if, still being relatively young and physically undiminished, he paused to re-consider that revelation of his.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:He was.

I meant I wonder if, still being relatively young and physically undiminished, he paused to re-consider that revelation of his.

I'm sure he did at some point.

But even if he came back, I couldn't see Ali ever jumping back into the ring with Foreman.

Ali was too smart and Foreman way too dangerous.

If you are talking about Leon taking on George, I would have advised Leon to stay about three time zones away from George at all times.

Yeah, I meant Foreman angling for a shot at Spinks.

Jesus, Im not sure theres a time Spinks would EVER be favoured against Foreman, from Big George's debut in 1969, to his last ever bout in 1997

Foreman already knew from experience Ali pussed out of the rematch with him.

I remember watching Spinks come up the ranks, I figured he was too green, but I was not terribly dissapointed having someone who I had actually met on more than one occasion ascend. I really did think that Leon had potential, and thought maybe just maybe he could continue to improve. I watched/ ok more "heard about" a relentless partying routine starting immediately after this fight. I thought to myself "if only he had his brother's discipline". I felt I knew he was going to go out in a quick blaze. Which he did.


I'd like some feedback, did anyone think he could have been a great? Did anyone think he even showed any promise in his early fights?

I honestly did, but "promises" are OFTEN broken. And maybe I was just caught up in the local hysteria. He seemed very unorthodox and appeared to show an interesting relentlessness seldom seen. I wondered if what he had would be effective at the top of the ladder, and when he pulled it off, I was as interested as I was mystified.

BoxBuzz wrote: Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)

What are you basing this on?

klompton wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote: Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)

What are you basing this on?

Greb lost.

........to some this brings as much pain as the short sentence "Jesus wept".


(tounge planted firmly in cheek.)

I know little about O'Dowd, so if he was someone who showed great promise I should be punished. (Though I see no

evidence of this in plain sight.) Everybody has a bad day at the office now and again.

I'm getting more familiar with Greb's remarkable record which I have always regarded with great respect, if not dumbfounded awe.

However some have taken his accomplishments to biblical proportions. So when I see he had some small chinks in his armour I simply

take note. Mostly because I don't want to lose the opportunity to wind up a few Grebaholics now and again.

BoxBuzz wrote:I remember watching Spinks come up the ranks, I figured he was too green, but I was not terribly dissapointed having someone who I had actually met on more than one occasion ascend. I really did think that Leon had potential, and thought maybe just maybe he could continue to improve. I watched/ ok more "heard about" a relentless partying routine starting immediately after this fight. I thought to myself "if only he had his brother's discipline". I felt I knew he was going to go out in a quick blaze. Which he did.


I'd like some feedback, did anyone think he could have been a great? Did anyone think he even showed any promise in his early fights?

I honestly did, but "promises" are OFTEN broken. And maybe I was just caught up in the local hysteria. He seemed very unorthodox and appeared to show an interesting relentlessness seldom seen. I wondered if what he had would be effective at the top of the ladder, and when he pulled it off, I was as interested as I was mystified.

From afar, Leon winning the title was refreshing and he seemed a likeable character, but I never got the feeling he could be truly great, at least not in the heavyweight division.

I don't quite recall exactly when the cruiserweight division came about, but maybe that was Leon's true calling in the ring.

Ali at his best would have pitched a virtual shut out against Leon, assuming it went 15.

lol...Leon's "true calling" was to the next party, where it may be taking place.

BoxBuzz wrote:

klompton wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote: Mike O'Dowd W10 Harry Greb (1918)

What are you basing this on?

Greb lost.

........to some this brings as much pain as the short sentence "Jesus wept".


(tounge planted firmly in cheek.)

I know little about O'Dowd, so if he was someone who showed great promise I should be punished. (Though I see no

evidence of this in plain sight.) Everybody has a bad day at the office now and again.

I'm getting more familiar with Greb's remarkable record which I have always regarded with great respect, if not dumbfounded awe.

However some have taken his accomplishments to biblical proportions. So when I see he had some small chinks in his armour I simply

take note. Mostly because I don't want to lose the opportunity to wind up a few Grebaholics now and again.

As I said, what are basing the idea that Greb lost on?

To question whether O'Dowd showed great promise is a sad commentary on how forgotten he is. He was a tremendous fighter in his day. He should be in the HOF, long before such names as Miske and Norfolk IMO. Of the six local papers 3 voted for O'Dowd, 2 voted for Greb, and 1 had a draw with the caveat that strictly scoring on points Greb deserved to win "but a draw seemed fair." Keep in mind this was O'Dowd's hometown and he was the champion so Greb wasnt going to be getting any benefit of the doubt. George Barton who was the most respected sportsman in the Twin Cities for decades to come judged Greb the winner. His decision typically carried the argument.

The only chink in Greb's armor that this bout showed was his over eagerness to make weight and win the championship. He had lately been fighting in the high 160s. For this fight he was so eager to make 158 and possibly take the championship that he staying all night in a turkish bath with the result that he weighed in at 155 and a half pounds. His lightest in years and the lightest he would ever weigh again by several pounds.


Grebaholics get wound up when people less familiar with the circumstances begin expounding upon his virtues or drawbacks based on what theyve read into his record here on boxrec or other third party sources.

I know Greb's work very well, I've seen every one of his fights available on film. As I'm sure you have.

But the written record is NOT to be ignored. And his record is nearly that of Bob Fitzimmons. I'm genuinely looking forward to your book should it manifest.