BoxRec

With the emergence of UFC and it's various branches, and especially with the paucity of talent in boxing's top tier division do you feel that Rocky Marciano is still relevant to the modern fan or has he become a relic of the past whose story is becoming forgotten to all those but the most hardcore followers of the sport? (http://www.redemptionthelifeanddeathofrocky.weebly.com)

Marcianobio wrote:With the emergence of UFC and it's various branches, and especially with the paucity of talent in boxing's top tier division do you feel that Rocky Marciano is still relevant to the modern fan or has he become a relic of the past whose story is becoming forgotten to all those but the most hardcore followers of the sport? (http://www.redemptionthelifeanddeathofrocky.weebly.com)

I'm not sure if I understand the question that you are asking... You've thrown in a few facets in your question which I could answer bit-by-bit.

Marcianobio wrote:With the emergence of UFC and it's various branches

Why should the UFC be relevant? Ultimate fighting and boxing are NOT and NEVER will be the same thing - so they will never step on each other's toes. They might share an audience group but that's as afar as any comparisons go.
Actually the likes of kickboxing and karate are closer to boxing that what the UFC is - and boxing has done well even when the likes of kickboxing and karate have existed.

Marcianobio wrote:and especially with the paucity of talent in boxing's top tier division

The degree of talent/ability in the Heavyweight division today is a comment on today's Heavyweights not to the ability or legacy of Rocky Marciano.

Marcianobio wrote:do you feel that Rocky Marciano is still relevant to the modern fan

As a matter of interest, why have you singled out The Rock for this question?
But to answer... YES. A boxing fan who wnats to understand the history and evolution of the Heavyweight Division MUST learn about and watch Rocky Marciano fighting - just as they would watch Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali or Larry Holmes or Mike Tyson

Marcianobio wrote:has he become a relic of the past whose story is becoming forgotten to all those but the most hardcore followers of the sport?

I wouldn't think so, and if you believe that then I'm afraid for consistency you would have to ask the same question for any World Champion (regardless of division) before and up to the Marciano era (early 50s)

Marciano is singularly the THE fighter in the history of the sport who could pull a win out of nowhere. He will never be forgotten. Boxers and non boxers alike can learn from his resolve, and if Joe public doesn't want to it's their loss. He'll always have a huge place in the sport.

Is Marciano relevant?

Well, if you consider that the man always came to fight, was one of the fittest heavyweights in history with a huge appetite for training, showed big tenacity when the chips were down, had a style that was pleasing to the fan, and was always an absolute gentleman to every single one of his opponents (before and after fights ), then the answer is a big emphatic, resounding YES.

kaiserbill wrote:Is Marciano relevant?

Well, if you consider that the man always came to fight, was one of the fittest heavyweights in history with a huge appetite for training, showed big tenacity when the chips were down, had a style that was pleasing to the fan, and was always an absolute gentleman to every single one of his opponents (before and after fights ), then the answer is a big emphatic, resounding YES.

Very well put, sir.

kaiserbill wrote:Is Marciano relevant?

Well, if you consider that the man always came to fight, was one of the fittest heavyweights in history with a huge appetite for training, showed big tenacity when the chips were down, had a style that was pleasing to the fan, and was always an absolute gentleman to every single one of his opponents (before and after fights ), then the answer is a big emphatic, resounding YES.

Well-played

kaiserbill wrote:Is Marciano relevant?

Well, if you consider that the man always came to fight, was one of the fittest heavyweights in history with a huge appetite for training, showed big tenacity when the chips were down, had a style that was pleasing to the fan, and was always an absolute gentleman to every single one of his opponents (before and after fights ), then the answer is a big emphatic, resounding YES.

foxy01 wrote:With all due respect to the thread starter, only a fool would believe that Marciano wasn't relevant to boxing, and its history. Like him or loath him the guy is a boxing legend.

Two excellent posts!!

I dont think the first Rocky movie was solely based/inspired by Chuck Wepner lasting till the 15th round with Ali in 1975.

I definately think Rocky Marciano was part of the inspiration. Italians are extremely proud of Marciano. Stallone is Italian and his nickname in the Rocky flix is The Italian Stallion. He fights southpaw as his natural stance which IS contrast to Marciano but nevertheless,he Does have a Marciano poster on his apartment wall that Manager Mick takes notice of and promptly points out that he "Stallone" with his fictional character "Balboa" reminds him of Marciano. Stallone wrote the Rocky script and i'm very certain Marciano was always a huge inspiration and hero of his.

Vinnie Pazienza became a boxer because of watching the original Rocky movie,it made him believe he could do it.
Just as much as Wepner inspired Rocky,i'm sure Marciano had a big part of the inspiration as well.,and has much inspiration on many future boxers. Him and Dempsey were actually two of Mike Tyson's biggest inspirations to box.

AngryGoon38 wrote:I dont think the first Rocky movie was solely based/inspired by Chuck Wepner lasting till the 15th round with Ali in 1975.

I definately think Rocky Marciano was part of the inspiration. Italians are extremely proud of Marciano. Stallone is Italian and his nickname in the Rocky flix is The Italian Stallion. He fights southpaw as his natural stance which IS contrast to Marciano but nevertheless,he Does have a Marciano poster on his apartment wall that Manager Mick takes notice of and promptly points out that he "Stallone" with his fictional character "Balboa" reminds him of Marciano. Stallone wrote the Rocky script and i'm very certain Marciano was always a huge inspiration and hero of his.

Vinnie Pazienza became a boxer because of watching the original Rocky movie,it made him believe he could do it.
Just as much as Wepner inspired Rocky,i'm sure Marciano had a big part of the inspiration as well.,and has much inspiration on many future boxers. Him and Dempsey were actually two of Mike Tyson's biggest inspirations to box.

Do you not know the REAL inspiration for the Rocky movie?

I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

yancey wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:I dont think the first Rocky movie was solely based/inspired by Chuck Wepner lasting till the 15th round with Ali in 1975.

I definately think Rocky Marciano was part of the inspiration. Italians are extremely proud of Marciano. Stallone is Italian and his nickname in the Rocky flix is The Italian Stallion. He fights southpaw as his natural stance which IS contrast to Marciano but nevertheless,he Does have a Marciano poster on his apartment wall that Manager Mick takes notice of and promptly points out that he "Stallone" with his fictional character "Balboa" reminds him of Marciano. Stallone wrote the Rocky script and i'm very certain Marciano was always a huge inspiration and hero of his.

Vinnie Pazienza became a boxer because of watching the original Rocky movie,it made him believe he could do it.
Just as much as Wepner inspired Rocky,i'm sure Marciano had a big part of the inspiration as well.,and has much inspiration on many future boxers. Him and Dempsey were actually two of Mike Tyson's biggest inspirations to box.

Do you not know the REAL inspiration for the Rocky movie?

???

Ive only ever heard they loosely based the characters of Balboa & Creed (who reminds me more of Holmes than anyone else) on Wepner & Ali, respectively.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

yancey wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:I dont think the first Rocky movie was solely based/inspired by Chuck Wepner lasting till the 15th round with Ali in 1975.

I definately think Rocky Marciano was part of the inspiration. Italians are extremely proud of Marciano. Stallone is Italian and his nickname in the Rocky flix is The Italian Stallion. He fights southpaw as his natural stance which IS contrast to Marciano but nevertheless,he Does have a Marciano poster on his apartment wall that Manager Mick takes notice of and promptly points out that he "Stallone" with his fictional character "Balboa" reminds him of Marciano. Stallone wrote the Rocky script and i'm very certain Marciano was always a huge inspiration and hero of his.

Vinnie Pazienza became a boxer because of watching the original Rocky movie,it made him believe he could do it.
Just as much as Wepner inspired Rocky,i'm sure Marciano had a big part of the inspiration as well.,and has much inspiration on many future boxers. Him and Dempsey were actually two of Mike Tyson's biggest inspirations to box.

Do you not know the REAL inspiration for the Rocky movie?

???

Ive only ever heard they loosely based the characters of Balboa & Creed (who reminds me more of Holmes than anyone else) on Wepner & Ali, respectively.

Perhaps I exaggerate a bit, but a significant portion of Rocky was inspired by Joe Frazier.

For instance, the punching the meat scene and running up the steps in Philly was pure Frazier.

Nice to see that there is apparently some movement and discussions towards a statue of Frazier in Philadelphia.

He was the real Rocky.

'Frilla wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

He's from their cloth apparently. Also Alexander the Conqueror gets a mention, but for some reason he left out William the Great.

JDC wrote:

'Frilla wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

He's from their cloth apparently. Also Alexander the Conqueror gets a mention, but for some reason he left out William the Great.

That was a GREAT rant by Tyson. If he would have finished it by taking out the reporter, then it would have been legendary.

I knew he identified with Dempsey and Liston, but I never heard about the Marciano connection.

He will always be relevant, it's just a mesh of the people who overrate him or underrate him that makes him an odd character.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He will always be relevant, it's just a mesh of the people who overrate him or underrate him that makes him an odd character.

Yeah, good summation.

He is often dramatically rated too high or too low.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He will always be relevant, it's just a mesh of the people who overrate him or underrate him that makes him an odd character.

Yeah, good summation.

He is often dramatically rated too high or too low.

Do you guys think somewhere around #15 is too low?

No, I think you're not far wrong with that.

He doesnt make my top-10, but I think 11-15 is pretty accurate to my way of thinking.

'Frilla wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

"Iron Mike" Tyson only talked about the great fighters of the past, because he himself, wanted to be considered as greatness on their level. It might be noted that Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton (whom Tyson held a brief alliance with) owned Big Fights, Inc (film and tape collectors of virtually every known boxing film dating back to the earliest recordings, and of which owned the public viewing rights to)
who more or less fed Mike (while in training or leisure) access to their library. Mike studied the various "styles" of old champions and contenders and try to come away with different aspects of Boxing techniques. He himself proclaimed this many times.
When one is Heavyweight Champion of the World, One wants to be considered the "baddest man" on the face of the earth. Just ask Ali. Its an ego thing that comes with the title. How the world's boxing fans perceives each and every boxer down the line is another thing.
Why not Tyson consider himself to Dempsey, or Jack Johnson for that matter, or Liston ? surprising to hear that come from Mike. But to align yourself with the true great Champs-why not.

To answer the threads question- Yes, Marciano will always be relevant. Fans can argue all they want to about his greatness or awkwardness, but he still went undefeated and had a terrific punch coming from the strength of his legs.Most fighters of the 50's recognized him as a true Champ and the Greatest Heavywt. of his time.

CNorkusJr wrote:

'Frilla wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

"Iron Mike" Tyson only talked about the great fighters of the past, because he himself, wanted to be considered as greatness on their level. It might be noted that Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton (whom Tyson held a brief alliance with) owned Big Fights, Inc (film and tape collectors of virtually every known boxing film dating back to the earliest recordings, and of which owned the public viewing rights to)
who more or less fed Mike (while in training or leisure) access to their library. Mike studied the various "styles" of old champions and contenders and try to come away with different aspects of Boxing techniques. He himself proclaimed this many times.
When one is Heavyweight Champion of the World, One wants to be considered the "baddest man" on the face of the earth. Just ask Ali. Its an ego thing that comes with the title. How the world's boxing fans perceives each and every boxer down the line is another thing.
Why not Tyson consider himself to Dempsey, or Jack Johnson for that matter, or Liston ? surprising to hear that come from Mike. But to align yourself with the true great Champs-why not.

To answer the threads question- Yes, Marciano will always be relevant. Fans can argue all they want to about his greatness or awkwardness, but he still went undefeated and had a terrific punch coming from the strength of his legs.Most fighters of the 50's recognized him as a true Champ and the Greatest Heavywt. of his time.

Great post!

CNorkusJr wrote:

'Frilla wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I know Tyson has long had an infatuation with Dempsey, never heard he felt that way about Marciano.

and Liston...

"Iron Mike" Tyson only talked about the great fighters of the past, because he himself, wanted to be considered as greatness on their level. It might be noted that Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton (whom Tyson held a brief alliance with) owned Big Fights, Inc (film and tape collectors of virtually every known boxing film dating back to the earliest recordings, and of which owned the public viewing rights to)
who more or less fed Mike (while in training or leisure) access to their library. Mike studied the various "styles" of old champions and contenders and try to come away with different aspects of Boxing techniques. He himself proclaimed this many times.
When one is Heavyweight Champion of the World, One wants to be considered the "baddest man" on the face of the earth. Just ask Ali. Its an ego thing that comes with the title. How the world's boxing fans perceives each and every boxer down the line is another thing.
Why not Tyson consider himself to Dempsey, or Jack Johnson for that matter, or Liston ? surprising to hear that come from Mike. But to align yourself with the true great Champs-why not.

To answer the threads question- Yes, Marciano will always be relevant. Fans can argue all they want to about his greatness or awkwardness, but he still went undefeated and had a terrific punch coming from the strength of his legs.Most fighters of the 50's recognized him as a true Champ and the Greatest Heavywt. of his time.

Great post mate, Iron Mike did do his homework on past greats. I remember i read some where, that Cus would sit Mike down and watch past great boxers for a whole training session. He was well educated on former greats.