BoxRec

I imagine, in most people's opinion, this would have been the fight of all fights, the bout of all bouts, the greatest match-up ever. The president would be present and all sorts. The money involved in the bout would have been astronomical and so on.

Now, forget all that, and concentrate on the fight itself and the fighters.

Ali, at his best, was so graceful, dancing, moving so fast, throwing extremely combinations, talking to his opponents even! In his day, Ali took very little punches, and the ones he did take, he use to turn away so there was not full imapct. His footspeed was remarkable and he had a sound chin.

Tyson in his prime was a machine-like fighter. In my opinion, froma physical standpoint, talent-wise, Mike Tyson was the most gifted heavyweight ever. He was so very good at an age where you are just not suposed to be that good, developed etc. He had the unique combination of devestating power, with excellent hand speed. His defensive ablilities were first-class, always moving his head. Tyson was able to close down the distance between himsefl and others without getting hit. He was a very good combination puncher, shots to the body and head, good variety about his work. Footspeed was good and he had a sound chin.

Ali very seldom punched to the body, and he kept his hands low. I feel Ali was more of an arm-puncher, and that he never really put his full weight behind his shots. I do not feel Ali was the best in-fighter either - he use to put his glove around his opponents neck i.e. Joe Frazier fights.

Tyson has had problems on getting his mental set-up in shape and intact. I believe things could effect his mind if they happened, and sometimes Mike needed to reassured by his trainers, managers etc. In those early days, Mike was a low self asteem person, who needing telling things by his trainers etc. This is no fault of his own, it was just the way he was, which was probably caused by his childhood prior to Cus D'Amato.

There you have it, guys. There strengths and weaknesses, god and not so-good factors. Nowc lets have your predictions for this one!

ali-tyson would be the same as ali-foreman or ali liston (imo)

i guess ur right jim. I think Ali would win because he had a good jab. and good jabbers give tyson problems (ex. Lewis, Douglas) but i guess u could make the case that tyson was either out of shape or past his prime.


but consider this, look at the hard punchers ali faced Frazier(beat twice) Foreman, Shavers, liston,

a think POWER is one of the main things needed to beat Tyson



Tyson could defeat Ali much like Frazier did.....only he'd be hitting harder and faster, and wouldn't provide Ali the luxury of the slow start Frazier did

No Contest..
Ali would box Mike Tyson silly and knock him flat in the mid to late rounds just like Douglas did ..only Ali is much better than James Buster Douglas ,,so the beating would be worse for Mike

zurd beat me to it on this one.....it wouldn't even be one of ali's harder fights....and i'm not even using the douglas fight in as a factor.

Tyson was never able to fight from behind or handle adversity. Ali would put Tyson behind and hand him the adversity of his miserable life.

Tysons chin was incredible and Ali would just KO him with slaps?


and allthough Tyson was mentally weak....has it ever shown in the ring?? he's always kept coming forward....even againt Lewis

indeed, tyson would always be coming forward...which is why it wouldn't even be one of ali's toughest fights. i don't see how anyone who has seen both fighters could come to any other conclusion.

Roll With The Punches wrote:Tysons chin was incredible and Ali would just KO him with slaps?


and allthough Tyson was mentally weak....has it ever shown in the ring?? he's always kept coming forward....even againt Lewis

George Foreman was demonstrably more sturdy than Tyson and Ali dropped him for a ten-count ......

The fact that he wigged out and bit Holyfields ears during a big fight would be a good example of Tyson's mental weakness in the ring..He deliberately got himself DQed to avoid another whuppin'...

If Holyfield could make Tyson act crazy think of what Ali and all of his taunts,antics and mind games would do to Tyson even before the fight started .....
The intimidation factor that Tyson relies on so heavy would be useless..
Ali knew no fear in the ring....If he wasn't scared of Liston or Foreman or Frazier why would he be scared of Mike Tyson

Ali sucessfully psyched out big bully bruisers Like Sonny Liston and George Foreman...Tyson would be no problem for Ali ...

Ali would beat on Tyson like he was Jerry Quarry...

If Iron Mike himself possessed a mere 10% of the stubbornness of his devotees, then he might well have become the reincarnation of Joe Frazier. But what really happened is this (how many more times must I say it?):

Every time Mike Tyson faced a great heavyweight anywhere near his prime, he lost.

I think that about sums it up.

Rather than Jerry Quarry I think Mike would actually more resemble a somewhat more buffed out version of Floyd Patterson If he had ever fought a prime Ali... And we all know how well Floyd did in those fights...

Tyson by early KO

Don't use Patterson as an example, Patterson was past it when he fought Ali. And Patterson was also much faster than Mike Tyson or Ali. If a prime Patterson fought Ali, I highly doubt the outcome would have been the same.

As for Tyson... Tyson has the power to drop Ali, but I don't think he has what it would take to 10 count him. Ali if nothing else had a pretty good chin and alot of determination. I could only see a few guys in history giving him a 10 count, and Tyson the ear biting punk isn't one of them.

Could Tyson outbox Ali? No. What does that leave? I think he'd go for the balls this time, and I don't mean low blows.

Tantum wrote:Don't use Patterson as an example, Patterson was past it when he fought Ali. And Patterson was also much faster than Mike Tyson or Ali. If a prime Patterson fought Ali, I highly doubt the outcome would have been the same.

As for Tyson... Tyson has the power to drop Ali, but I don't think he has what it would take to 10 count him. Ali if nothing else had a pretty good chin and alot of determination. I could only see a few guys in history giving him a 10 count, and Tyson the ear biting punk isn't one of them.

Could Tyson outbox Ali? No. What does that leave? I think he'd go for the balls this time, and I don't mean low blows.

185lb Henry Cooper dropped Ali heavily and had him glassy eyed and wobbly, before Ali recovered and won after an long inter round break.

Tyson hit much harder and faster than Cooper.

I know its a basic comparison, but if Cooper could drop Ali, Tyson could KO him.

knockout artist wrote:185lb Henry Cooper dropped Ali heavily and had him glassy eyed and wobbly, before Ali recovered and won after an long inter round break.

Tyson hit much harder and faster than Cooper.

I know its a basic comparison, but if Cooper could drop Ali, Tyson could KO him.

But here again, you're taking one particular Ali fight that suits you and saying that it's representative of Ali's entire career. One could equally well use the Foreman fight (aging Ali vs. the in-his-prime, seemingly unstoppable Foreman) to argue that Ali would've found a way to neutralize Tyson's speed and power, would get him frustrated, and Tyson would self-destruct. The latter in fact is rather representative of Tyson's career, much more so that Ali/Cooper is of Ali's - fact is, Ali had one of the greatest chins in HW history, and was never KO'd anywhere near his prime. So just because someone had him momentarily wobbled doesn't mean sh*t.

And Tyson hitting hard is only meaningful if he actually connects. Again, using your approach, one can argue that if the smallish Holyfield was able to neutralize and frustrate Tyson in not just one but two fights, the bigger, more-skilled, equally courageous Ali would've been able to do the same.

...At which point the Tysonites invariably trot out the mythical "prime Tyson," the one who was strangely never seen in the ring vs. any really great opponent, and also not the one who was embarassed by Douglas, mind you. Which one can counter by trotting out the genuine prime Ali, the one that destroyed Liston. The difference being that after coming back from his three-plus year layoff, Ali was still able to put together a pretty decent remainder of a career.

So I guess you could sum it up this way: Tyson's supposed greatness rests on a raft of impressive KOs of second-raters, over-the-hillers and blown-up light-heavies, with a ready-made set of excuses for every loss or subpar performance. Like most all-time greats Ali also had some less-than-stellar nights, but sandwiched in amongst those is no small number of some of the greatest fights and performances in history. Only a fool would argue that the former outweigh the latter.

Eric the Viking wrote:If Iron Mike himself possessed a mere 10% of the stubbornness of his devotees, then he might well have become the reincarnation of Joe Frazier. But what really happened is this (how many more times must I say it?):

Every time Mike Tyson faced a great heavyweight anywhere near his prime, he lost.

I think that about sums it up.

Tyson would have stopped Frazier in one round.

knockout artist wrote:Tyson would have stopped Frazier in one round.

Only in the daydreams of his fans. Which, by the way, is the ONLY place Tyson ever beat an all-time great heavyweight near his prime, much less KOed him in the first round.

Eric the Viking wrote:

knockout artist wrote:Tyson would have stopped Frazier in one round.

Only in the daydreams of his fans. Which, by the way, is the ONLY place Tyson ever beat an all-time great heavyweight near his prime, much less KOed him in the first round.

I thought the BOTP forum was free from Tyson KO1 Everybody posts. Excellent previous post BTW.

Ali would have owned Tyson's mind by mid-way ( that all you got sucka?! etc ) and stopped him by round 10.

Tyson's a brave fighter, but he has shown weakness in the ring - just think Holyfield 2.
Manny Steward always said Tyson was intimidated by Holy - he always beat him at everything: pool, table tennis...and yes boxing too.

Tyson would have been intimidated by the awesome Ali no doubt about it. 8)

Remember when Patterson was training for his fight with Ali and Muhammad showed up with a bunch of vegetables for "The Rabbit"? I wonder what Ali would show up at Tyson's camp with? Handcuffs? A book about speech impediments? A copy of the Kama Sutra?

Eric the Viking wrote:

knockout artist wrote:Tyson would have stopped Frazier in one round.

Only in the daydreams of his fans. Which, by the way, is the ONLY place Tyson ever beat an all-time great heavyweight near his prime, much less KOed him in the first round.

Frazier was a notoriously slow starter, this, coupledd with the fact that he would have gone straight at Tyson at the first bell would have played into Tysons hands.

Tysons left hook was as hard and fast as Fraziers, Tysons right hand was better, i'm not sure about chins, but I'd give the edge to Tyson. Frazier was stronger mentally and had better stamina and was a better fighter in close, but I dont think these factors would have come into it.

Styles make fights and Frazier's (great fighter though he was) style was made for Tyson.

Frazier comes out fast and walks straight into a right hand left hook combo, and is knocked down a couple more times before thr referee stops the fight.

I'm being objective here, so how would you see Frazier winning? bacause I just cant.

Tomato-Can wrote:Remember when Patterson was training for his fight with Ali and Muhammad showed up with a bunch of vegetables for "The Rabbit"? I wonder what Ali would show up at Tyson's camp with? Handcuffs? A book about speech impediments? A copy of the Kama Sutra?

Probably all three.

Typical of Ali, great fighter, no class.

Tomato-Can wrote:I thought the BOTP forum was free from Tyson KO1 Everybody posts.

Unfortunately not - but I find it entirely appropriate that Tyson's name appears here. ;)

Tomato-Can wrote:Remember when Patterson was training for his fight with Ali and Muhammad showed up with a bunch of vegetables for "The Rabbit"? I wonder what Ali would show up at Tyson's camp with? Handcuffs? A book about speech impediments? A copy of the Kama Sutra?

The Keed posted this pic in a thread last year:



I love the look on the face of the guy standing next to Floyd - trying really hard not to bust out laughing.

And yes, if Ali could get inside the heads of mentally tough guys like Liston, Frazier and Foreman, he would've psyched out Tyson so badly, it would've been sad to watch. At that level, the mental game is at least half the battle, and no one was better at the mental game than Ali - no one.

knockout artist wrote:Frazier was a notoriously slow starter, this, coupledd with the fact that he would have gone straight at Tyson at the first bell would have played into Tysons hands.

Tysons left hook was as hard and fast as Fraziers, Tysons right hand was better, i'm not sure about chins, but I'd give the edge to Tyson. Frazier was stronger mentally and had better stamina and was a better fighter in close, but I dont think these factors would have come into it.

Possibly - but first off, we were talking about Tyson vs. Ali, not Frazier. With Ali, you picked one particular Ali fight and decided to make it count more than the others. Now with Frazier, you're picking one or two attributes which Tyson did happen to have to a similar degree as Frazier, and choosing to weigh those more than attributesd that Frazier had more of in spades than Tyson.

I'm being objective here, so how would you see Frazier winning? bacause I just cant.

How is assuming that Frazier's trememdous toughness, inside-fighting skills and sheer will are irrelevant being objective? Aren't those the very same qualities that Holyfield used to humiliate Mike?

Nah man, I posted that pic. :P

It's even still on my site. :P