BoxRec

No racial reasoning here , just another Gym conversation that we had last night .

Thinking of all the best boxers from the past , the vast majority are black .

Ok some are Hispanic , theres the odd asian etc etc

But we really struggled to think of many great white boxers who compete amongst the best of all time .

Europe in the main is becoming one of the main boxing powers , so i do think the Great White isnt too far away .

The Klitschkos are obviously Very Dominant right now , maybe the most Dominant white boxers ever ????

But there not the best , i Just seriously cannot think of many to compete up there with them and neither could the lads at the gym.

Weve surely forgotten some real quality boxers here , so hopefully some of you guys will refresh our memories .

How about a top 3 or something

for me its

1 . Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3 .Kostya Tszyu

1) Willie Pep

2) Harry Greb

3) Jim Jeffries

Lennox Lewis

Syntax Error wrote:1) Willie Pep

2) Harry Greb

3) Jim Jeffries

Ive no idea who these are , ive heard of willie pep before but certainly dont recall seeing any of them fight .

Maybe its my age , they are maybe from too long ago for me to really know them , im not exactly a boxing historian .

But obviously black boxers i can just reel them off the top of my head .

also to be clear can mods keep an eye on this thread in case of any idiots making un needed comments .

damianhucker1 wrote:1 . Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3 .Kostya Tszyu

Harder to define what 'white' means than you might think. According to wikipedia Tsyzu is part Russian, part Korean, part Mongol, don't know if he considers himself white or not.

J-C wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:1 . Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3 .Kostya Tszyu

Harder to define what 'white' means than you might think. According to wikipedia Tsyzu is part Russian, part Korean, part Mongol, don't know if he considers himself white or not.

Fair point , but was struggling for 3rd position .

damianhucker1 wrote:

J-C wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:1 . Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3 .Kostya Tszyu

Harder to define what 'white' means than you might think. According to wikipedia Tsyzu is part Russian, part Korean, part Mongol, don't know if he considers himself white or not.

Fair point , but was struggling for 3rd position .

There are loads who would be in with a shout especially in the pre war era. Micky Walker, Harry Greb, Gene Tunney, Benny Leonard, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross

Sven Ottke

Casey Brooke. Simply awesome.

Willie Pep & Harry Greb, off the top of my head.

Harry greb is a defo. Marciano. Probably even throw in John L Sullivan.

Benny Leonard

Rocky Balboa dumbass...nice thread.

Harry greb
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Jimmy Wilde
Barney Ross
Bob Fitzsimmons
Mickey Walker
Rocky Marciano
Gene Tunney
Jack Dempsey

Calzaghe

Harry Greb

Horse wrote:Harry greb
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Jimmy Wilde
Barney Ross
Bob Fitzsimmons
Mickey Walker
Rocky Marciano
Gene Tunney
Jack Dempsey

Great list

dr_devious wrote:Great list

MachoMan09 wrote:Good list, Horse.

Nine or ten white guys usually make the top twenty of ATG lists.

Is it that many?

Idiotic question due to its racial nature, and would be controversial if it wasn't about white people

Eras, socio-demographic patterns and defining 'best' are all important question here.

Best at the time is another factor.

Would Rocky MArciano, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey be able to compete with the modern heavyweight? Of course not; too small, with a more basic understanding of sports science plus less technical skills would see them destroyed. Can anyone really expect a 13st 6 bls Rocky to compete with Lennox Lewis? Of course not. ALso look how crude Jack Dempsey, Jack johnson, Jess Willard were compared to the modern fighter. Sure they were tough - but lift them out of their era and stick them in the ring with a big modern heavyweight and they wouldn't have a chance.

Also, ignoring the big names, some of the Heavyweights Ali and even Holmes were dreadful, as well as around14-15 stone. Wepner, Richard Dunn, Coopman, David Bey, Scott Frank, Leroy Jones were just awful.


Joe FRazier was amazing, but at his best he weighed only 205 lbs. Klitchkos would be too big.

However Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, Holmes were the best at the time by far. And Rocky never got beat. Of course he would've done if he'd gone on forever but he didn't.

Don't get me wrong, boxing suits black physiques in a way that say weightlifting, world's strongest man etc doesn't.

But who asks 'who are the best Asian (ie Indian/Pakistani/Bangledeshi) fighters'? Well, there are not many. But Khan shows they exist. I mean few fighters are quicker than him. But ask who are the best Asian squash players and you get a different answer.

Odd question to the thread owner and also deliberately controversial, and most importantly very difficult to answer.

call me bias but... Soopa Joe Calzaghe!!!

MachoMan09 wrote:Yes. A combination of nine or ten from your list, plus Ketchel and Canzoneri, would get into most ATG top 20s I reckon.

I would guess that about 10 White fighters would be in the average person's top 30 and about 6 White fighters in their top 20. However, this all depends on whether any Hispanic fighters count as White.

reggaereggae wrote:Idiotic question due to its racial nature, and would be controversial if it wasn't about white people

Come on it isn't idiotic and I don't think it really would be controversial if it was a discussion about other races.

reggaereggae wrote:Eras, socio-demographic patterns and defining 'best' are all important question here.

Best at the time is another factor.

Would Rocky MArciano, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey be able to compete with the modern heavyweight? Of course not; too small, with a more basic understanding of sports science plus less technical skills would see them destroyed. Can anyone really expect a 13st 6 bls Rocky to compete with Lennox Lewis? Of course not. ALso look how crude Jack Dempsey, Jack johnson, Jess Willard were compared to the modern fighter. Sure they were tough - but lift them out of their era and stick them in the ring with a big modern heavyweight and they wouldn't have a chance.

Also, ignoring the big names, some of the Heavyweights Ali and even Holmes were dreadful, as well as around14-15 stone. Wepner, Richard Dunn, Coopman, David Bey, Scott Frank, Leroy Jones were just awful.


Joe FRazier was amazing, but at his best he weighed only 205 lbs. Klitchkos would be too big.

However Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, Holmes were the best at the time by far. And Rocky never got beat. Of course he would've done if he'd gone on forever but he didn't.

Don't get me wrong, boxing suits black physiques in a way that say weightlifting, world's strongest man etc doesn't.

But who asks 'who are the best Asian (ie Indian/Pakistani/Bangledeshi) fighters'? Well, there are not many. But Khan shows they exist. I mean few fighters are quicker than him. But ask who are the best Asian squash players and you get a different answer.

Odd question to the thread owner and also deliberately controversial, and most importantly very difficult to answer.

All time P4P judgements can be difficult, but people still manage to give it a go.

Harry Greb? FFS give it a rest!! none of you have even saw the man fight.

Jeez!!!!

Horse wrote:Harry greb
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Jimmy Wilde
Barney Ross
Bob Fitzsimmons
Mickey Walker
Rocky Marciano
Gene Tunney
Jack Dempsey