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I was gutted for Crolla last night, he's such a nice kid and the stoppage was pretty awful but for me that win makes derry a Domestic great.

Now what I mean by that is there are a few fighters that are strictly lower top ten or European class or below but have held tremendous form over the years.

For example Jason booth, Danny Williams, Michael Gomez, Jamie Moore, Crawford Ashley and billy schwer are all fighters I'd consider ATG domestic guys... Maybe I'm wording this wrong but hope you understand. Put it this way if there was a UK hall of fame they'd be a lock for it....

Anyway Derry now for me deserves some real long term respect. Wins over crolla (rsf6), Foster jnr (w12), John Simpson (w12), choi (w3), Lawton (w10) plus a host of other decent lower level wins .... Great form and real character from him...

'Domestic great' Never heard that one before Jeff D

Its a title he deserves though, Derry is and always has been a warrior. If not for his vulnerabilities he could have gone a lot further than he did to. Fair play to him for never giving up boxing despite his setbacks, he's reaped the rewards for it now.

You know what I mean.....

Guys like Adrian stone, Wayne Alexander, Howard Eastman, ensley Bingham, Ross hale, Brodie, sprott, I dunno I can't explain... Maybe consistent at domestic without being a bug factor at world level

Jeff Thomas wrote:

You know what I mean.....

Guys like Adrian stone, Wayne Alexander, Howard Eastman, ensley Bingham, Ross hale, Brodie, sprott, I dunno I can't explain... Maybe consistent at domestic without being a bug factor at world level

I get what you mean, hes definitely beaten the very best at domestic level

the first time he has won the Lon belt (big congrats to him by the way) and in a controversial manner, 6 defeats all by stoppage, no one of note on his record really..this does not constitute a domestic great, the likes of alexander and eastman were a big threat to anyone at world level let alone domestic.

well done to Derry, but lets not get carried away, crolla stops him in a rematch, any day of the week.

rhino222 wrote:the first time he has won the Lon belt (big congrats to him by the way) and in a controversial manner, 6 defeats all by stoppage, no one of note on his record really..this does not constitute a domestic great, the likes of alexander and eastman were a big threat to anyone at world level let alone domestic.

well done to Derry, but lets not get carried away, crolla stops him in a rematch, any day of the week.

Not too sure about that mate, be a good rematch for sure.

I do agree with you about Derry though, not sure he quite fits into domestic 'all time' great.

rhino222 wrote:the first time he has won the Lon belt (big congrats to him by the way) and in a controversial manner, 6 defeats all by stoppage, no one of note on his record really..this does not constitute a domestic great, the likes of alexander and eastman were a big threat to anyone at world level let alone domestic.

well done to Derry, but lets not get carried away, crolla stops him in a rematch, any day of the week.

Simpson, Lawton, Choi, Foster Jr, Marsh, Crolla

Id say these wins are of note especially as were talking on a domestic levle i dont think any other current British Champion except Enzo has better names on their records??

Jeff Thomas wrote:I was gutted for Crolla last night, he's such a nice kid and the stoppage was pretty awful but for me that win makes derry a Domestic great.

Now what I mean by that is there are a few fighters that are strictly lower top ten or European class or below but have held tremendous form over the years.

For example Jason booth, Danny Williams, Michael Gomez, Jamie Moore, Crawford Ashley and billy schwer are all fighters I'd consider ATG domestic guys... Maybe I'm wording this wrong but hope you understand. Put it this way if there was a UK hall of fame they'd be a lock for it....

Anyway Derry now for me deserves some real long term respect. Wins over crolla (rsf6), Foster jnr (w12), John Simpson (w12), choi (w3), Lawton (w10) plus a host of other decent lower level wins .... Great form and real character from him...

A domestic great would imo be a fighter who maybe never won a world crown, but who was utterly dominant at domestic level for an extended period. But while Derry has some decent wins, he's been stopped several times at domestic level, so he can't really be considered a 'great'

I like it.... "domestic great"

Moore would be one too, and Rhodes.. or are they not classed because they've been successful at European level?

Danny Williams? Jason Booth?

lurkyshaka wrote:

Jeff Thomas wrote:I was gutted for Crolla last night, he's such a nice kid and the stoppage was pretty awful but for me that win makes derry a Domestic great.

Now what I mean by that is there are a few fighters that are strictly lower top ten or European class or below but have held tremendous form over the years.

For example Jason booth, Danny Williams, Michael Gomez, Jamie Moore, Crawford Ashley and billy schwer are all fighters I'd consider ATG domestic guys... Maybe I'm wording this wrong but hope you understand. Put it this way if there was a UK hall of fame they'd be a lock for it....

Anyway Derry now for me deserves some real long term respect. Wins over crolla (rsf6), Foster jnr (w12), John Simpson (w12), choi (w3), Lawton (w10) plus a host of other decent lower level wins .... Great form and real character from him...

A domestic great would imo be a fighter who maybe never won a world crown, but who was utterly dominant at domestic level for an extended period. But while Derry has some decent wins, he's been stopped several times at domestic level, so he can't really be considered a 'great'

Henry Cooper? Although be did get the EBU belt in the end.

rhino222 wrote:the first time he has won the Lon belt (big congrats to him by the way) and in a controversial manner, 6 defeats all by stoppage, no one of note on his record really..this does not constitute a domestic great, the likes of alexander and eastman were a big threat to anyone at world level let alone domestic.

well done to Derry, but lets not get carried away, crolla stops him in a rematch, any day of the week.

Aint gonna be no rematch!

Matthews was too big, raw boned and powerful for the game and skiled Crolla. It'd be frightening what Mitchell or Rees would do to Anthony.

Jeff,
Would you include Chris Edwards ?
Amazing how he's turned things around but I find it hard to describe Derry or Chris as "greats".

Domestic great - an interesting concept.

Would it be someone who hasn't scored any wins over top 10 world ranked (independently) opponents? That might mean the likes of Danny Williams, Ryan Rhodes, Jamie Moore are out of it... what about running a world champion very close in a world title fight... . would that mean Jason Booth and Michael Brodie not in it?

How about these guys - domestic all time greats or not.

Esham Pickering? Colin Lynes, Eamonn Magee, Michael Jennings, Bradley Pryce, Tony Oakey.

Lovely concept.

lurkyshaka wrote:A domestic great would imo be a fighter who maybe never won a world crown, but who was utterly dominant at domestic level for an extended period. But while Derry has some decent wins, he's been stopped several times at domestic level, so he can't really be considered a 'great'

I have to agree with this definition. However, I have the utmost respect for Derry - the way he has battled back several times now from what at the time appeared to be career-ending defeats is indicative of his incredible courage and heart. Deserves all the credit under the sun.

Just as an aside, I'd also say that Eastman couldn't be considered in the ranks of domestic greats as he was fringe world-class IMO - the Joppy fight being proof of that.

so...domestic all time great should be below european level, otherwise he is better than a domestic fighter!

Deserter wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:Just as an aside, I'd also say that Eastman couldn't be considered in the ranks of domestic greats as he was fringe world-class IMO - the Joppy fight being proof of that.

True - we would just have to invent another category (and we can see how these "World" titles evolve !).

There's enough distinctions and rankings of boxers; I don't think you can gauge a boxers impact until after they've retired a few years. 3 months ago many would have put Crolla as one of the best lightweights in a while. Let the fat lady sing over a career before we sling accolades about, surely?

Colin Jones?

Come on; Peter Culshaw then?