BoxRec

Just wondered if anyone had heard if he reovered from his fall from that balconey?

Good question, I am sure Bunce would know more, hopefully if he doesn't want to reveal himself he can PM a moderator to let us know.

Ahh, so all Buncey's "In the know" info comes from here then, eh?

"Av ya seen im?" - asks Bunce in his infectious psuedo cockney tone.

I once got threatened by Kirkland Laing (in 1989 at the Boxing Board dinner). Well, he was threatening me and I was trying not to laugh.
You see, I couldn't understand a word he was saying.

Ah the myth of Kirland Laing lives on. He had won good win in his career over Roberto Duran. Apart from that he didnt fulfill his promise. Why are we obliged to feel sorry for him?

I feel sorry for anyone who becomes lost in a world of booze and drugs and ends up virtually homeless. Its just not nice.

Kirkland did not fulfill his promise but he had skills to compare with any British fighter of the 80s, just not the will/ability to apply them.

Nobody's obliged to, they just do, because it's a tragedy that a man blessed with as much innate ability as Kirkland undoubtedly had has
allowed his life to fall to rack and ruin.

Have a heart...

The Caped Crusader wrote:Ah the myth of Kirland Laing lives on. He had won good win in his career over Roberto Duran. Apart from that he didnt fulfill his promise. Why are we obliged to feel sorry for him?

Because he fell off a balcony and nearly died. It's only right to have some sympathy.

I have a heart but tolerate a fool? Thats different. Laing seemingly drank his career away. What an idiot especially as he had so much ability. I feel sorry for people who have bad luck, those who never get a chance in life. Laing had it all in the palm of his hand yet wasnt disciplined enough to do anything with it. More fool him. He should not be celebrated.

Do you think people with drink and drug addictions set out to ruin their lives and waste their talents? I've had first hand experience of people with both sets of problems, and they are to be pitied rather than reviled.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Do you think people with drink and drug addictions set out to ruin their lives and waste their talents? I've had first hand experience of people with both sets of problems, and they are to be pitied rather than reviled.

Of course they dont. But ultimately they make their choice and must suffer the consequences. We all do. This country is up shit creak because we think its ok for teenage girls to get pregnant and we put a protective arm around drug users when they should have known better.

Such behaviour is now commonplace, accepted rather than condoned. Maybe if we took a harsher stance with people it would persuade them and others to kick their habits.

Life's about choices, Kirklaind made his and has to live with them. We should not judge him too harshly without having walked the road he has ourselves.

I can though see your point about wasting his talent, some people would give anything for a fraction of the gifts he had.

Christ crusader, I hope you never run for political office.....

What would you suggest we do with people who become drug abusers?Shoot them? or perhaps we should throw them all in our overcrowded jails, or just leave them to wander the streets jabbering cobblers to themselves or mugging people.

Life is less about choice than you might think, genetic research is proving more and more that most of us are at the mercy of our genes to a very large extent, which is why alcoholism tends to run in families for instance. The old nature v nurture debate is falling ever more heavily on the nature side.

Compassion is the mark of a civilised society. I for one wouldn't have it any other way.

If you think the UK is so fucked up, I suggest you do more travelling, because it's one of safest and most affluent countries in the world. Half the world's population is grubbing around in the dirt watching their own shit float past them, wondering where their next meal or drink of water is coming from.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Christ crusader, I hope you never run for political office.....

What would you suggest we do with people who become drug abusers?Shoot them? or perhaps we should throw them all in our overcrowded jails, or just leave them to wander the streets jabbering cobblers to themselves or mugging people.

Life is less about choice than you might think, genetic research is proving more and more that most of us are at the mercy of our genes to a very large extent, which is why alcoholism tends to run in families for instance. The old nature v nurture debate is falling ever more heavily on the nature side.

Compassion is the mark of a civilised society. I for one wouldn't have it any other way.

If you think the UK is so fucked up, I suggest you do more travelling, because it's one of safest and most affluent countries in the world. Half the world's population is grubbing around in the dirt watching their own shit float past them, wondering where their next meal or drink of water is coming from.

You strike me as being a warrior with a notepad. I didn't advocate shotting druggies, nor is throwing them in prison and throwing away the key a solution either. I'm just saying I feel no sympathy for people like Laing for squandering his opportunity.

Writing about Laings woes is always a nice piece for journalists looking to touch the delicate hearts of their ignorant readers. We shouldn't over glorify fighters who threw it all away.

Were all getting deep and meaningful here.

And my wife says men are insensitive.

Basically, Kirkland had a load of natural ability, but easy come easy go I suppose, he pissed it all up the wall and had a good time doing it.

Now he is paying the price, but he doesnt appear to balme anyone but himself, he seems to have accepted his lot.

All credit to him, some people, much better off than Kirkland, are always fornicating moaning about their hard luck.

I sympathise with him insofar as he appears not to have had the foresight to see how much he could have acheived, or maybe he didnt care.

Either way, I wish him well.

I'm not a warrior of any kind, nor claim to be, I'm just an average joe who loves his boxing, enjoys writing, and therfore enjoys writing about boxing given the opportunity.

We are disagreeing on a pretty fundamental level, whilst it's easy to chastise people for 'throwing it all away' as you say, and indeed, I've been known to do so myself in the past, I think what I am saying is that we are none of us above reproach, and the greatest tragedy is the lives that these people end up leading, George best is another example, a sad lonely old fart who despite his B-list celebrity lifestyle, is as miserable a fornicator as you are likely to come across, pissing himself to an early death.

People take as if it is a deliberate decision that people take to ruin their lives and waste their god given abilities, however, I just don't see it that way, we are who we are warts and all and if you were to roll the dice 1000 times and put someone in that same position, it would always turn out the same way.

Some fighters are Lennox Lewis,' overachievers of the highest order, and some are like Riddick Bowe, underachievers who blow it all.

Nobody here is glorfying Kirkland Laing, I certainly am not. However as an amateur journalist, it seems obvious that stories like Kirkland's are going to resonate with the public at large, because his story is a common one, and everyone in their life has made bad decisions which they've lived to regret.

I dislike this armchair warrior tag which gets bandied about, somehow implying that if you ain't fought you're a pussy, well maybe so, but I don't think the validity of someone's opinion is negated by being a non-participant.

Anyway, we're getting a bit off topic here really....let's just say, I wish Kirkland nothing but the best, even if he did squander his talents and turn gold into shit, and his earnings into special brew and crack.

Excellent response, James. I appreciate your stance on this topic.

I remember reading an article about Laing where he tells of how he was very sick as a young child and couldn't walk or talk properly till he was about 4 years old... all in all I don't think he had the happiest of starts in life and that can affect a person when they grow up. I always saw Laings erratic life style and career performances as symptomatic of someone who lacks confidence in themselves... he was not some brash young thug running around having the best of times with the booze and the birds but a sensitive and troubled person who couldn't handle the pressure of expectation and success... and probably too easily led astray by others wanting a good time at his expense.
While Kirkland may not have explored his talent fully he still gave boxing fans many nights of pleasure, as someone who watched him box 'live' many times I can safely say I will never forget his amazing and eccentric skills and for that I am always in his debt.

"Some fighters are Lennox Lewis,' overachievers of the highest order, and some are like Riddick Bowe, underachievers who blow it all."

How was Lewis an overachiever? He had a lot of talent. I seem to get the thought that people consider people who do well and work hard are talentless, which is stupid. If what someone above said about Laing was true (about his confidence deficiency etc) then I feel sorry for him, but as far as I know, Kirklaind Laing is an idiot whom I have no sympathy for.

"let's just say, I wish Kirkland nothing but the best, even if he did squander his talents and turn gold into shit, and his earnings into special brew and crack."

This made me piss!

what I wrote was a bit misleading, Lewis and Bowe were very close in terms of talent, the point I was trying to make is what they did with their talent.

When Lewis won the championship, he made the best of his time there in most senses, whereas Bowe was always struggling to keep his foot on the gas and stop eating himself into an early retirement. Bowe was physically wrecked by the time he got to Golota.

Two heavyweights, both with all the tools to succeed, but one had the right mental setup to exploit it to the maximum, and the other didn't.

They aren't the best examples, as both were high achievers, you cannot be anything else if you are a genuine world champion.

I was quite pleased with the parting shot myself....

Mental talent is also innate. A lot of people fail to realise this.

That is exactly my point, that is why some boxers are able to make the most of their physical abilities, and others aren't, some people are fundamentally flawed, either due to heredity, or whatever, they just cannot keep a handle on their shit.

interesting to see that so many people think this and to an extent I agree, I trust you have the same viewpoint on Tyson. Cos if ever a man pissed away his talent early it was that man.

Caped crusaders writing style seems familiar....