BoxRec

I know, I'm finding fault with a 47 yr old who can still give the best LHW a decent fight, but praise for Hopkins aside, could anyone see him still fighting if the division had a prime Spinks, Qawi, Foster, Conteh, Mustafa Muhammad, Conn, Pastrano, etc. Personally I think it's a pretty good sized list of LHW's from the past who would beat Hopkins, so yes, I'd say his success well past 40, proves that one of boxings greatest divisions has gotten pretty weak.

I think the Super Six slowed down the natural progression from the division below. It tied a number of fighters to 168 and also freed up belts for some other fighters to remain there.

His defense, holding and fouling would make anyone look bad. In older eras he wouldn't have been able to fight so sporadically and make a living, I imagine that would have made a significant difference in how long he lasted. Still an amazing run.

he did well no1 would really of rulled him out completely

Seamus wrote:I know, I'm finding fault with a 47 yr old who can still give the best LHW a decent fight, but praise for Hopkins aside, could anyone see him still fighting if the division had a prime Spinks, Qawi, Foster, Conteh, Mustafa Muhammad, Conn, Pastrano, etc. Personally I think it's a pretty good sized list of LHW's from the past who would beat Hopkins, so yes, I'd say his success well past 40, proves that one of boxings greatest divisions has gotten pretty weak.

Did you just figure out the 175 lb division was weak? In terms of depth that division has sucked since the late 80s . . .

I think it is a tough one to call actually when you think about it, because Bernard Hopkins has always been a fighter that has really looked after his body throughout his professional career and has never abused his body with alcohol and drugs (both recreational and PEDS) and eats very healthly which is why he has been to able box so far into his late 40s. As for the the Light-Heavy division being weak, I think it is quite competitive division at the momentactually as you make a few good match ups in the shape of any out of

Hopkins
Tavoris Cloud
Beibut Shumilov
Nathan Cleverly
Chad Dawson
Jean Pascal
Eduard Gutknecht
Tony Bellew.

And a few others. While it is not talent deep like that Super-Middles it is still a competitive division in my eyes.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I think it is a tough one to call actually when you think about it, because Bernard Hopkins has always been a fighter that has really looked after his body throughout his professional career and has never abused his body with alcohol and drugs (both recreational and PEDS) and eats very healthly which is why he has been to able box so far into his late 40s. As for the the Light-Heavy division being weak, I think it is quite competitive division at the momentactually as you make a few good match ups in the shape of any out of

Hopkins
Tavoris Cloud
Beibut Shumilov
Nathan Cleverly
Chad Dawson
Jean Pascal
Eduard Gutknecht
Tony Bellew.

And a few others. While it is not talent deep like that Super-Middles it is still a competitive division in my eyes.

I agree that several competitive fights are possible at 175, but that doesn't reflect the quality of the division's fighters. A division comprising horrible fighters will likely produce a larger number of competitive fights than a division comprising average, good, and great fighters.

It's far from a horrible division.

I agree.

Not necessarily, the fact is he came into the division at a time where it was somewhat becoming two separate leagues of old vets (Tarver, Johnson, BHop, Jones, Calzaghe) and young guns (Dawson, Shumenov, Cloud, Pascal) and managed to somewhat "potshot" in terms of selectively choosing big names that allowed him to make the most use of his skills with less calculated risk (from his standpoint at least since the public could only go off him being "old"). Drained Tarver, bloated alcoholic Pavlik, soft Winky (not hating either, he did great, but he himself knew what he was doing).

He's also tough to look good against and against some of these bigger guys has trouble looking especially threatening himself because of his age and relative lack of physicality. Calzaghe retired soon after their close bout as he met with his own mortality. He was able to take advantage of Pascal's lack of endurance and blind anger to pick him apart but even that was a nip-and-tuck job that could've ended in disaster with him looking up at the lights at any time.

The fact is Dawson, Campillo, Cloud, Pascal, and Shumenov can all mix to make very good fights, not to mention the likely joining of Bute and Ward soon. The division looks brighter than it did when BHop first moved up into it.

Divisions frequently go through fluctuations. 115 was hot a few years ago (Donaire, Darchinyan, Montiel, Castillo, Mijares, Munoz), then 118 was hot for the last couple years (Donaire, Montiel, Mares, Agbeko, Perez, Darchinyan) and now 122 is probably the most talent loaded in the sport (Donaire, Mares, Rigondeaux, Nishioka, Arce, and guys like Moreno and Mijares kind of floating around).

It's a barren division. Pascal and Dawson would get decapped in other eras and Hopkins simply couldn't survive.

I think the division is stronger now than when Roy Jones was dominating in the early 00s, but still a prime Ezzard Charles at LHW would make mincemeat out of every fighter at 175lb today.

jezzamundo wrote:I think the division is stronger now than when Roy Jones was dominating in the early 00s, but still a prime Ezzard Charles at LHW would make mincemeat out of every fighter at 175lb today.

...and it wouldnt take a guy of Charles' calibre to accomplish that, either.

Saad would beat all of these guys, there are still lots of fights to be made and the fighters from 168 will slowly start to move up. LOL at barren. Dawson would hold his own in any era.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Saad would beat all of these guys, there are still lots of fights to be made and the fighters from 168 will slowly start to move up. LOL at barren. Dawson would hold his own in any era.

I see Saad destroying this 175 division. Who do you see giving him the most trouble?


edit - I just notice you feel Dawson is very good, so I imagine him? I would like to see Dawson in with someone really taking the fight to him. The last performance of his I enjoyed was Adamek.

You didn't enjoy the first Johnson fight? That was pretty awesome.

Chad likes guys coming at him, but he is fast more than he is slick. Saad would walk through his stuff after a couple rounds and pout a beating on him. Campillo would probably be the toughest test for Matt, he has pretty slick movement where Chad is more stationary.

Yes, I did enjoy the Johnson fight, I'm a big fan of Glen and felt he nicked the fight. I think thats when Chad went down a bit in my estimation as I felt the fight was his with a bit more guts and effort. He did win anyway though so moot point.

I have not managed to see Campillo, will check out after my steak.

Chad Dawson likes people coming at him? Didn't look that way versus Pascal. He is nothing. Too many guys to name would whack Dawson. Bob Foster would disable him.

loaded_gloves wrote:Chad Dawson likes people coming at him? Didn't look that way versus Pascal. He is nothing. Too many guys to name would whack Dawson. Bob Foster would disable him.

Pascal was in retreat for the majority of the fight and he would bounce in with a flurry. Hardly an aggressive performance, he struggled with jean's speed. Chad Dawson is nothing? Then Foster's challengers were less than nothing. Chad would beat all of them and losing to Foster is hardly shameful.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Saad would beat all of these guys, there are still lots of fights to be made and the fighters from 168 will slowly start to move up. LOL at barren. Dawson would hold his own in any era.

The division is not deep. Cloud and Shumenov are exciting fighters but not very good. Pascal has natural talent but some fairly significant stamina and technical deficiencies. Dawson is the best of the lot but he even managed to lose to Pascal. Beyond Campillo who is left? Cleverly still hasn't done jack.

The late 90s Roy era was better. While also not a very deep division, people remember it being worse than it was b/c a) Roy was so dominant and b) Roy often fought a lot of C graders in-between the real top men.
But I'd put Roy, Eric Harding, Tarver, Griffith, Michalczewski, Rocchiagiani, and older Hill over this lot anyday of the week.

No divisions are overly deep, Kessler is there now as well. We'll see what he has left. I wasn't trying to say the division is awesome, it just isn't barren.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:Chad Dawson likes people coming at him? Didn't look that way versus Pascal. He is nothing. Too many guys to name would whack Dawson. Bob Foster would disable him.

Pascal was in retreat for the majority of the fight and he would bounce in with a flurry. Hardly an aggressive performance, he struggled with jean's speed. Chad Dawson is nothing? Then Foster's challengers were less than nothing. Chad would beat all of them and losing to Foster is hardly shameful.

You may think this is British bias but Finnegan was a really stout challenger. Not a great but you had to be damned good to beat him on his best night.

Finnegan would be a test in any era and would pick up a belt in today’s division.

Seamus wrote:I know, I'm finding fault with a 47 yr old who can still give the best LHW a decent fight, but praise for Hopkins aside, could anyone see him still fighting if the division had a prime Spinks, Qawi, Foster, Conteh, Mustafa Muhammad, Conn, Pastrano, etc. Personally I think it's a pretty good sized list of LHW's from the past who would beat Hopkins, so yes, I'd say his success well past 40, proves that one of boxings greatest divisions has gotten pretty weak.

Yeah its a weak era, when Hopkins at 44-47 is dealing with the best. I still think he beat Calzaghe, and Glen Johnson has dealt with quite a few young pretenders too.

Well Boxing itself has declined heavily over the last decade.

It's not just the LHW Division...

If you look at the best, the likes of Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Spinks, Qawi etc. would destroy everybody from LW to CW.

The only people that would stand a chance at the moment is Ward, Mayweather and Pac as they are essentially in their prime. Only other guy i can think of sticking with the best is Hopkins on merit alone.

Other than that, after Mayweather and Pac retire, i dont see anyone replacing them.

So saying a HOF would own the LHW division can be applied to any other division...