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Please remember that Ali was a long way from his best in 1973 & 1976

It got me thinking.

Some argue the 1973-75 vintage (up until he fought Frazier) was the best version as although he had lost speed of hand and foot, he compensated with greater smarts, experience and improved chin and a new innovative gameplan of the rope a dope which was instrumental v Foreman and Shavers to name 2. Others counter the rope a dope led to a defeat to ...Leon Spinks!

Some also say the 1970s version faced and beat (and yes on occasion lost) to a far stronger pool of foes in the 1970s which his 60s self may not have beaten.

I havent given it thought myself yet so the above comments are to play devils advocate.

Which version do you think was the very best Ali.The 1960s one or a particular version of the 70's one?

Ali was clearly superior in the mid-late 60s. By the time he won the title he had filled out to be in the 205-212 range and had the same smarts and chin he had in the 70s, but definitely was more active in the ring and could move around longer. To those who question Ali's "durabilty" in the 60s (and how does a 30 year old fighter after a long layoff suddenly become more durable and get a better chin .. makes no sense) just watch the first Chuvalo fight.

And I mean my God if you are talking about the best 70s ALi it's the 1970-74 version, not 73-75. I don't think I've EVER heard anyone claim Ali post Zaire up to Frazier was anything near his best. The guy who fought Bugner and Lyle? Puhleeeze.

dempseyfire wrote:Ali was clearly superior in the mid-late 60s. By the time he won the title he had filled out to be in the 205-212 range and had the same smarts and chin he had in the 70s, but definitely was more active in the ring and could move around longer. To those who question Ali's "durabilty" in the 60s (and how does a 30 year old fighter after a long layoff suddenly become more durable and get a better chin .. makes no sense) just watch the first Chuvalo fight.

And I mean my God if you are talking about the best 70s ALi it's the 1970-74 version, not 73-75. I don't think I've EVER heard anyone claim Ali post Zaire up to Frazier was anything near his best. The guy who fought Bugner and Lyle? Puhleeeze.

Angelo Dundee always maintained Ali wasn't quite the same fighter when he came back after his enforced layoff. He rated the 60's version of Ali the best.

The world was probably robbed of Ali in his absolute prime, as he was enduring a layoff in 1968/69, when he arguably would have been at his absolute best.

As it stands, he was at his best in 1966/67, although I've always maintained that he was good in 1972 also, he seemed to get his legs back; he'd shaken off the rust, he'd filled out too & he was impressive during that calendar year.

George Chuvalo & Floyd Patterson have both answered this question.

Both of them fought Ali in his prime in the 1960s & again in 1972 and both have stated unequivocally that he was better in the 60s than he was in '72.

Curiously though, neither man factored in their own respective declines in that time.

dempseyfire wrote:Ali was clearly superior in the mid-late 60s. By the time he won the title he had filled out to be in the 205-212 range and had the same smarts and chin he had in the 70s, but definitely was more active in the ring and could move around longer. To those who question Ali's "durabilty" in the 60s (and how does a 30 year old fighter after a long layoff suddenly become more durable and get a better chin .. makes no sense) just watch the first Chuvalo fight.

And I mean my God if you are talking about the best 70s ALi it's the 1970-74 version, not 73-75. I don't think I've EVER heard anyone claim Ali post Zaire up to Frazier was anything near his best. The guy who fought Bugner and Lyle? Puhleeeze.

I think Ali's resume in the 60's was a bit thin. If you think the Liston fights were not on the level, as I do, who was the best guy Ali fought in the 1960's? Maybe Terell. Is it that hard to look good vs. A shot Cleveland Williams, a plodding Chavalo, or a too small and not powerful enough Foley? I think not.

While the 60's Ali was faster, the 70's Ali had a set of skills the 60's Ali did not. That is clinching, and counter punching. I also think the 70's version of Ali was a bit stronger. And the 70's version of Ali beat better fighters in Frazier, Foreman, Norton, and Lyle.

Ability wise he was better in the 60's obviously, in the 70's he had more experience, craft and ring intelligence.

Ill always go with the 60's version of Ali over the 70's version.

Ali was definitely superior in the 60s.

OK, his resume was not as impressive then, but I have no doubt he would have beaten his 70s opponents far easier than he did, had he fought them circa 1967.

His chin, heart, stamina & ring smarts would all have been there in the 60s, it's just that he didn't need to rely on them as he was still young & in his physical prime.

dempseyfire wrote:Ali was clearly superior in the mid-late 60s. By the time he won the title he had filled out to be in the 205-212 range and had the same smarts and chin he had in the 70s, but definitely was more active in the ring and could move around longer. To those who question Ali's "durabilty" in the 60s (and how does a 30 year old fighter after a long layoff suddenly become more durable and get a better chin .. makes no sense) just watch the first Chuvalo fight.

And I mean my God if you are talking about the best 70s ALi it's the 1970-74 version, not 73-75. I don't think I've EVER heard anyone claim Ali post Zaire up to Frazier was anything near his best. The guy who fought Bugner and Lyle? Puhleeeze.

Well just to play devils advocate and stoke the fires of debate here, someone on another forum stated as below:

"The 1970-73 version of Ali hadnt unveiled the rope a dope for one thing, and he hadnt quite accepted the loss of his own hand and foot speed therefore was trying to outbox foes purely by dancing like he did in the 60s. He wasnt as acclimatised for standing still and slugging it out punch for punch and this caused losses to Frazier and Norton. Therefore I class the 74 version as superior to the 1970-1973 one who lost to Frazier and Norton. The 1974 one was wiser and crucially stronger, the realisation he had lost something in foot and hand speed caused him to learn how to sit down on his punches a little more, he adapted and came back to beat Frazier and Foreman. Therefore I rate the 1974 version the best of the 70s version......and the 1960s version as the best of the lot as his pure boxing was just that much far ahead"

My own view is Ali had attempted to use the rope a dope against Frazier in 1971 and it just hadnt worked. But I also feel the 1974 Ali had reached his 70's peak and it was all downhill after that, as the pounds piled on, the training camp habits (womanising, drinking, letting young fighters bash him for round after round on the kidneys) the divorces, the dangerous weight loss pills all piled up.

Whoever wrote that wasnt paying close attention to the FOTC. Ali tried the RAD there before Zaire.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Whoever wrote that wasnt paying close attention to the FOTC. Ali tried the RAD there before Zaire.

Also, if he sat down on his punches so much better post 74 it sure didn't show up on his knock out ratio.