BoxRec

Chuvalo's Wikipedia page currently says he was knocked down twice by Ringo Bonavena.

Is this generally considered accurate or were they truly slips?

Are records of knockdowns kept in boxing?

The ref never ruled a knockdown; they were both ruled slips.

IMO one was a clear slip and the other was 50/50 . . could've been a KD but it's not like he was hurt,

One was clearly a knockdown, the other was 50/50 a slip/push. That being said, there is a letter in the back of either boxing illustrated or ring magazine at the time asking this same question and the editor responds that one of the knockdowns was ruled as so. I found that interesting because I had always been under the impression that Mercante blew the call on the KD. I also have an article stating Chuvalo was knocked down against Cleroux. I have the footage of that knockdown and Cleroux more or less threw Chuvalo to the canvas with one arm, it would be interesting to know if this was ruled a knockdown.

Never happened.

What never happened?

Never ever believe what Wikipedia says, anybody can change the information on it

Chuvalo was knocked down by Bonavena. What is up to debate is whether both knockdowns should have counted as official. I believe both should have but one was certainly up to debate. He was also knocked down by Cleroux but that was clearly more of a throw down than a knockdown. Cleroux throws a wide punch which Chuvalo sort of steps inside of. Cleroux's arm goes around Chuvalos body and Cleroux simply keeps the momentum of the punch going and throws Chuvalo to the canvas. That in itself was impressive to see because Chuvalo was considered very strong, Cleroux tosses him down like a rag doll, with one arm no less.

flatnoseflynn wrote:Never ever believe what Wikipedia says, anybody can change the information on it

This is true. I was dead-set sure of something a few years back and bet my father $100. I looked it up online, and waddaya know, the old man was right. Fortunately, he has the technological savvy of Cro-Magnon Man, so I edited the Wiki page and collected D

Wiki is certainly not the best source.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

flatnoseflynn wrote:Never ever believe what Wikipedia says, anybody can change the information on it

This is true. I was dead-set sure of something a few years back and bet my father $100. I looked it up online, and waddaya know, the old man was right. Fortunately, he has the technological savvy of Cro-Magnon Man, so I edited the Wiki page and collected D

Wiki is certainly not the best source.

that is good stuff.

I made a correction to read:

George Louis Chuvalo, also known as Jure Čuvalo CM (born September 12, 1937) is a retired Croatian-Canadian heavyweight boxer who was only knocked down 2 times (against Oscar "Ringo" Bonavena), but were both ruled as a slip, so officially he was never knocked off his feet in ninety-three professional fights between 1956 and 1979.

Yep two flash knockdowns/slips, once in the 2nd, other in the 4th. To be honest some refs might have counted either one, he certainly took a clean punch for the first knockdown and stumbled backwards and touched down. The 2nd knockdown he took some solid head shots and sort of though himself off balance and fell into the ropes and sat down but again was taking punches at the same time. Both times he was up as quick as he went down, certainly flash knockdowns at best.


look at 6:50 for slow mo replay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U31f2Pl ... ure=relmfu

look at 3:26 for slow mo replay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9TjGCJz ... ure=relmfu

Thanks for the video links. First of, if it isn't ruled as a knockdown by officials it isn't a knowdown. Second, in both cases, Chuvalo was in full attack mode and was pushed by Bonavena while off balance, blatantly so in the first instance. I'm surprised Bonavena didn't draw a caution for use of his forearms at some point in the fight. Back in the day, you hit a guy square and he goes down, that's a knockdown. That didn't happen here, so Arthur Mercante, the primo referee of the day, didn't see a knockdown.

'nuff said.

Cap

Cap wrote:Thanks for the video links. First of, if it isn't ruled as a knockdown by officials it isn't a knowdown. Second, in both cases, Chuvalo was in full attack mode and was pushed by Bonavena while off balance, blatantly so in the first instance. I'm surprised Bonavena didn't draw a caution for use of his forearms at some point in the fight. Back in the day, you hit a guy square and he goes down, that's a knockdown. That didn't happen here, so Arthur Mercante, the primo referee of the day, didn't see a knockdown.

'nuff said.

Cap

Ha, yes I realise they weren't counted as knockdowns. What I meant was another ref "might" have given Chuvalo a count in those circumstances, they were very quick and open to interpretation. I have seen similar incidents where counts have been given, and blatant knockdowns that have been ignored.

That's why Mercante was so widely respected as a ref. As for Wikipedia, it's a nice idea, but how can you trust any source that can be so easily altered?
DD D

Cap

Cap wrote:Thanks for the video links. First of, if it isn't ruled as a knockdown by officials it isn't a knowdown. Second, in both cases, Chuvalo was in full attack mode and was pushed by Bonavena while off balance, blatantly so in the first instance. I'm surprised Bonavena didn't draw a caution for use of his forearms at some point in the fight. Back in the day, you hit a guy square and he goes down, that's a knockdown. That didn't happen here, so Arthur Mercante, the primo referee of the day, didn't see a knockdown.

'nuff said.

Cap

Actually the rule is that if you go down at the end of a punch, whether you are off balance, or slipping or whatever, its ruled as a knockdown. Thats exactly what happened here. So in my opinion Mercante, my favorite ref, blew at least one of these calls.

That wasn't the rule then.

Cap

Then tell us what the rule was back then because a lot of KDs were awarded a lot more liberally "back then". You seem like some of the Chuvalo fanboys who simply want to believe the myth that he was never knocked down more because thats part of the mythos of boxing than because its actually true. Let me guess: You also subscribe to the belief that he had one of the greatest chins ever and completely ignore the fact that whenever he started getting tagged at a worldclass level he went into a shell and stopped being competetive, or even trying to be competetive. A guy who simply marches forward behind a high guard and takes no chances is going to be tough for anyone to KO, ask Ross Purrity...


As it stands most people who watch Chuvalo-Bonavena without rose colored glasses will tell you that Chuvalo was down twice and at least one could have easily been called a KD.

Oh wait, you are from Canada... That explains it.

Go ahead and re-write history to suit yourself. All I'm saying is watch the film again and tell me Bonavena didn't push him. Tell me that the rule allows a boxer to be knocked down by a shove, a push or a trip. Tell me.

You make me sick. But that's only my opinion. I'm not a famous boxing historian like you, Comrade Klompton. Don't let me delay you, Comrade Klompton. You must have many more pages of history to correct., eh?



Cap

I asked a simple question: what was the rule? You are so familiar you should be able to quote it easily enough.