BoxRec

I just looked at his record, and was not impressed. Who did this guy beat to be ranked so highly? Yeah, he lossed to Robinson on pts, but that does not make you great.

No offense but are you nuts!!! Armstrong beat all of the top fighters that were avaliable and plus the fact is he held three different titles in three diffrent weight classes at the same time! you try it. you must not know a lot about boxing or must have just gotten into it or something.

Well you were probably not impressed because you have no idea who the fighters of that era were. For starters what makes Armstrong so great is that he held the featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight title simultaneously, over 20 title fights, and in one year he went 27-0-0 (26 KO), in 1939 alone he defended the welterweight title 11 times beating fighters like Baby Arizmendi, Bobby Pacho (twice), Lew Feldman and Ernie Roderick. His record is littered with world class fighters, here’s a list of top fighters he fought and I’m leaving out a lot of top ranking fighters:

1933
Jul 11 Baby Manuel Los Angeles L 6
1934
Jan 26 Baby Manuel Sacramento, CA W 10
Nov 3 Baby Arizmendi Mexico City L 12
1935
Jan 2 Baby Arizmendi Mexico City L 12
Feb 15 Baby Casanova Mexico City LDQ 5
Nov 27 Midget Wolgast Oakland W 10
1936
Aug 4 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Aug 28 Juan Zurita Los Angeles KO 4
Oct 27 Mike Belloise Los Angeles W 10
1937
Jan 1 Baby Casanova Mexico City KO 3
Mar 12 Mike Belloise New York KO 4
Mar 19 Aldo Spoldi New York W 10
May 4 Frankie Klick Los Angeles KO 4
Jul 19 Lew Massey New York KO 4
Jul 27 Benny Bass Philadelphia KO 4
Aug 13 Eddie Brink New York KO 3
Oct 29 Petey Sarron New York KO 6
1938
Feb 1 Chalky Wright Los Angeles KO 3
Mar 15 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Mar 25 Eddie Zivic Detroit KO 4
Mar 30 Lew Feldman New York KO 5
May 31 Barney Ross Long Island, NY W 15
Aug 17 Lou Ambers New York W 15
Nov 25 Ceferino Garcia New York W 15
1939
Jan 10 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Mar 4 Bobby Pacho Havana KO 4
Mar 16 Lew Feldman St. Louis KO 1
Mar 31 Davey Day New York KO 12
May 25 Ernie Roderick London W 15
Aug 22 Lou Ambers New York L 15
Oct 30 Bobby Pacho Denver KO 4
1940
Jan 24 Pedro Montanez New York KO 9
Mar 1 Ceferino Garcia Los Angeles D 10
May 24 Ralph Zanelli Boston KO 5
Jul 17 Lew Jenkins New York KO 6
Oct 4 Fritzie Zivic New York L 15

1941
Jan 17 Fritzie Zivic New York KO by 12
1942
Aug 3 Aldo Spoldi San Francisco KO 7
Sep 14 Leo Rodak San Francisco KO 8
Oct 13 Juan Zurita Los Angeles KO 2
Oct 26 Fritzie Zivic San Francisco W 10
Dec 4 Lew Jenkins Portland, OR KO 8
Dec 14 Saverio Turiello San Francisco KO 4
1943
Mar 2 Willie Joyce Los Angeles L 10
Mar 8 Tippy Larkin San Francisco KO 2
Apr 2 Beau Jack New York L 10
Apr 30 Saverio Turiello Washington DC KO 5
May 7 Tommy Jessup Boston KO 1
May 24 Maxie Shapiro Philadelphia KO 7
Jun 11 Sammy Angott New York W 10
Jul 24 Willie Joyce Hollywood, CA W 10
Aug 27 Ray Robinson New York L 10
1944
Jan 14 Aldo Spoldi Portland, OR KO 3
Jan 26 Saverio Turiello Kansas City KO 7
Mar 24 Ralph Zanelli Boston W 10
May 16 Ralph Zanelli Boston W 10
Jun 2 Willie Joyce Chicago L 10
Jun 15 Al Davis New York KO 2
Aug 21 Willie Joyce San Francisco W 10
Sep 15 Aldo Spoldi St. Louis KO 2
Nov 4 Mike Belloise Portland, OR KO 4

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum ... #post82252

should take this to boxers of the past and Ernie Roderick will be better reviewed - Barry knows plety about his worth... good picture though, and the fight it's self shows Roderick's excellence!

Heres an awesome video profile. Only 6 minutes long and worth every second.
Check it out and learn more about this alltime great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGSVW1Ft-Bg[/url]

I had to pick this thread up out of the mud at the current scene and drag it all the way over here. Since it took so much work to get it here PLEASE do not take pot shots at it and leave it in ruins. Treat it with the respect that it deserves. Handle it with care it is a relic from 2001.

Thank you

Your helpful and friendly Moderator...BoxBuzz

..buzz..thank you. with this one started so long ago, i assume by now this fellow jack is in some place where they are restrained if they get violent, or perhaps has bought a box about boxing and is now too embarrassed to return to this thread.

armstrong did have a few softies in that welter title defense, but when you fight every two weeks or so the quality of challengers is bound to vary, as one would tend to run out of world beaters.

wow i hadnt realized it had been started so long ago.

I hope he comes back and checks it anyway. The only thing i really knew about Armstrong before i saw that profile was that he was a simultaneous multi division champ. I found it a one day while i was wondering around youtube searching for old fights and found out about him.

He was not only a great fighter, he was a complete showman in and outside of the ring which puts him on the level of Robinson, and DLH's personas but with the bad luck of having to share the spotlight with Joe Louis.

Had he been active at a diferent era he would be as recognized as these other guys.

barry wrote:Well you were probably not impressed because you have no idea who the fighters of that era were. For starters what makes Armstrong so great is that he held the featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight title simultaneously, over 20 title fights, and in one year he went 27-0-0 (26 KO), in 1939 alone he defended the welterweight title 11 times beating fighters like Baby Arizmendi, Bobby Pacho (twice), Lew Feldman and Ernie Roderick. His record is littered with world class fighters, here’s a list of top fighters he fought and I’m leaving out a lot of top ranking fighters:

1933
Jul 11 Baby Manuel Los Angeles L 6
1934
Jan 26 Baby Manuel Sacramento, CA W 10
Nov 3 Baby Arizmendi Mexico City L 12
1935
Jan 2 Baby Arizmendi Mexico City L 12
Feb 15 Baby Casanova Mexico City LDQ 5
Nov 27 Midget Wolgast Oakland W 10
1936
Aug 4 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Aug 28 Juan Zurita Los Angeles KO 4
Oct 27 Mike Belloise Los Angeles W 10
1937
Jan 1 Baby Casanova Mexico City KO 3
Mar 12 Mike Belloise New York KO 4
Mar 19 Aldo Spoldi New York W 10
May 4 Frankie Klick Los Angeles KO 4
Jul 19 Lew Massey New York KO 4
Jul 27 Benny Bass Philadelphia KO 4
Aug 13 Eddie Brink New York KO 3
Oct 29 Petey Sarron New York KO 6
1938
Feb 1 Chalky Wright Los Angeles KO 3
Mar 15 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Mar 25 Eddie Zivic Detroit KO 4
Mar 30 Lew Feldman New York KO 5
May 31 Barney Ross Long Island, NY W 15
Aug 17 Lou Ambers New York W 15
Nov 25 Ceferino Garcia New York W 15
1939
Jan 10 Baby Arizmendi Los Angeles W 10
Mar 4 Bobby Pacho Havana KO 4
Mar 16 Lew Feldman St. Louis KO 1
Mar 31 Davey Day New York KO 12
May 25 Ernie Roderick London W 15
Aug 22 Lou Ambers New York L 15
Oct 30 Bobby Pacho Denver KO 4
1940
Jan 24 Pedro Montanez New York KO 9
Mar 1 Ceferino Garcia Los Angeles D 10
May 24 Ralph Zanelli Boston KO 5
Jul 17 Lew Jenkins New York KO 6
Oct 4 Fritzie Zivic New York L 15

1941
Jan 17 Fritzie Zivic New York KO by 12
1942
Aug 3 Aldo Spoldi San Francisco KO 7
Sep 14 Leo Rodak San Francisco KO 8
Oct 13 Juan Zurita Los Angeles KO 2
Oct 26 Fritzie Zivic San Francisco W 10
Dec 4 Lew Jenkins Portland, OR KO 8
Dec 14 Saverio Turiello San Francisco KO 4
1943
Mar 2 Willie Joyce Los Angeles L 10
Mar 8 Tippy Larkin San Francisco KO 2
Apr 2 Beau Jack New York L 10
Apr 30 Saverio Turiello Washington DC KO 5
May 7 Tommy Jessup Boston KO 1
May 24 Maxie Shapiro Philadelphia KO 7
Jun 11 Sammy Angott New York W 10
Jul 24 Willie Joyce Hollywood, CA W 10
Aug 27 Ray Robinson New York L 10
1944
Jan 14 Aldo Spoldi Portland, OR KO 3
Jan 26 Saverio Turiello Kansas City KO 7
Mar 24 Ralph Zanelli Boston W 10
May 16 Ralph Zanelli Boston W 10
Jun 2 Willie Joyce Chicago L 10
Jun 15 Al Davis New York KO 2
Aug 21 Willie Joyce San Francisco W 10
Sep 15 Aldo Spoldi St. Louis KO 2
Nov 4 Mike Belloise Portland, OR KO 4

Nice post, mate. Amstrong was a magnificent fighter. He had a swarming style, was a guy hat never stopped throwing punches.

I have Henry NO.2 P4P all time, under Robinson. I rank him that highly.

I think the point here is that even in bygone days people could be misguided, foolish, slow processors etc. There is nothing unique about 2007 when it comes to remarkably poor assessment skills.

Jack, grablarry, vicious, tuffcustomer, the basher boys....all part of the same "borg" deficit disorder mentality crew.

Though my guess is that grablarry would disagree with Jack I still prefer to include him in this group of ner'do wells. Because it simply suits my mood.

I am just going to say like Fritzie Zivic told Armstrong when he beat him in 1941: "Henry, YOU ARE THE GREATEST FIGHTER THAT EVER WALKED ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH"...He was right. 66 years later, there is nobody that came close!!!

Maybe there was another guy named Armstrong who lost to another fighter named Robinson.

..robinson idolized armstrong...when he(armstrong) was well past his prime the sugar man fought armstrong so the latter could get a decent purse. one writer said "It was the biggest carrying job since the statue at boy's town..."he's not heavy, he's my brother.

i have no idea how the fight would have gone if each was in his prime and neither does anyone else.

Armstrong is top 5 p4p obviously. But his record at featherweight wasn't fantastic. He fought mostly at lightweight and moving down to beat Petey Sarron was an ok achievement.

Granted he fought every few weeks, and i'm saying he was great. But at feather he is not as impressive.

Arizmendi he beat after losing twice (granted was in Mexico)
Wolgast? a flyweight
Klick? End of Klicks career and at lightweight
Bass at lightweight.

Armstrong fought mainly at around 130.

very good point. but he did defend welter title a few times and fought a good portion of his early career ar 147 or lower.

Jack wrote:I just looked at his record, and was not impressed..

Here's an outlandish idea:

You're supposed to see him fight to be impressed.

yeah but that idea doesnt stand up with....errr harry greb

i am now going to treat myself to a viewing of the very great Hank on youtube.

i have just been thru the link to the cyberboxing site with those british empire boxing photos - absolutely f...ing amazing. thanks so much.

Back when this thread was first started I think I had Armstrong ranked second right behind Robinson, but with six more years of research I have Armstrong tied with Robinson and if I had to pick between the two I would most likely go with Armstrong. His accomplishments are in a league of their own!

Armstrong was a very small welterweight and the fact that he was able to withstand 10 rounds against a big welterweight such as Robinson at a time when Robinson was unbeatable at 147 and at a time when Armstrong was at the end of the road...well it should speak volumes.

Armstrong beat Lou Ambers, when Ambers was at his prime and Ambers is most likely a top ten lightweight as well as a HOFer. Armstrong gave the great Barney Ross such a beating that Ross retired and Ross was a top ten welterweight who had lost only once in eight years against Jimmy McLarnin, which Ross avenged that defeat and he too was a HOFer. Armstrong easily handled these two HOFers as he easily handled a number of others.

I have no reservations whatsoever listing Armstrong alongside of Robinson as the p4p greatest fighters of all-time. He fought 12 hall of famers and the total number of world champions that he fought, well I do not recall without going back through, but it was a good number, and not to mention all of the top ten ranked opponents he fought. I went through all of this in a thread from a year, or so ago which I listed the total numbers of the champions and contenders he fought, so if anyone is interested you can find the thread through a search.

Barry what's you view of Ernie Roderick, who was 1 of only 4 fighters to hold Armstrong to task during his peak 3 title reign...

and if your familiar with the event Roderick was quite 'literally' still in the last few days of a flu (not an excuse, but a fact) and he stated quite matter of fact, that he would beat Armstrong in the return! Roderick gave Henry a great tacticle fight and his beautiful boxing is quite easily seen, Armstrong pulled off the victory in his typical 'unrelenting' constant fight.

Was Ernie Roderick the man to beat Armstrong if feeling in top form, or in the rematch?