BoxRec

who wins this? i feel like sergio had the tools to outbox tommy to win a close UD

Hearns lethal, he no Paul Williams. Hearns KO2.

Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Sportofkings wrote:Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Agreed.

I can't see Martinez winning his one with his chin hanging out, arms dangling style - Hearns is just too quick and powerful for him to get away with that. Mind you, Martinez certainly has the more solid chin in this matchup and he would only have to land one hayemaker like the one he did on Williams and it would be goodnight for the Hitman. Overall I favour Hearns to win on points in a competitive fight, but Martinez would be a live underdog.

Martinez loses every round and if he gets sassy he gets knocked out.

How is Sergio going to outbox Hearns, who had a brilliant jab, was more fluid on his feet, hits harder with both hands, and could bring it as well as he could outjab a man.

Martinez likely gets wasted early (no way does he pull out a P-Dub II shot here, he lacks the raw power a Roldan or Barkley put on Tommy to shake him up) and Hearns could easily choose to outmanoeuvre Martinez throughout.

Martinez is nowhere near as slick as he thinks he is. Duran's head and upper body movement was far more cultured and look where that got him. Sergio dies off in the middle rounds before surging late, his fast hands and natural athleticism might trouble Hearns a bit (if Martinez has got that far) but he would have to much catching up to do.

Either way, it's Hearns.

jezzamundo wrote:

Sportofkings wrote:Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Agreed.

I can't see Martinez winning his one with his chin hanging out, arms dangling style - Hearns is just too quick and powerful for him to get away with that. Mind you, Martinez certainly has the more solid chin in this matchup and he would only have to land one hayemaker like the one he did on Williams and it would be goodnight for the Hitman. Overall I favour Hearns to win on points in a competitive fight, but Martinez would be a live underdog.

I'm not certain he does. Williams rocked him and Pavlik got his respect. Harsh comparison because he really grew into himself as a fighter but Margarito overwhelmed him.

Look at the punchers it took to stun Tommy.

Marlin Starfish wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

Sportofkings wrote:Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Agreed.

I can't see Martinez winning his one with his chin hanging out, arms dangling style - Hearns is just too quick and powerful for him to get away with that. Mind you, Martinez certainly has the more solid chin in this matchup and he would only have to land one hayemaker like the one he did on Williams and it would be goodnight for the Hitman. Overall I favour Hearns to win on points in a competitive fight, but Martinez would be a live underdog.

I'm not certain he does. Williams rocked him and Pavlik got his respect. Harsh comparison because he really grew into himself as a fighter but Margarito overwhelmed him.

Look at the punchers it took to stun Tommy.

I agree that Hearns had an underrated chin, but I think his chin was merely average, not glass as some would have you believe. Still, I can't believe that Leonard at welterweight hit harder than Martinez at middleweight, so I still believe that Martinez has a shot at winning my KO. He certainly wouldn't out-slick Hearns, though, as The Hitman was never really outboxed by anyone, and it wouldn't be Martinez's style to rough him up. Ultimately I think both fighters are potential KO victims in this matchup, but overall I favour Hearns on points with a Hearns KO being the second most likely outcome.

What size is Martinez when he enters the ring?

he has a much better chance if we're talking Hearns who fought at 168 and 175.

jezzamundo wrote:I agree that Hearns had an underrated chin, but I think his chin was merely average, not glass as some would have you believe. Still, I can't believe that Leonard at welterweight hit harder than Martinez at middleweight, so I still believe that Martinez has a shot at winning my KO. He certainly wouldn't out-slick Hearns, though, as The Hitman was never really outboxed by anyone, and it wouldn't be Martinez's style to rough him up. Ultimately I think both fighters are potential KO victims in this matchup, but overall I favour Hearns on points with a Hearns KO being the second most likely outcome.

Ray carried his power higher than Sergio. He badly hurt Tommy in their rematch (168) and battered Lalonde (admittedly weight drained) at 168/175.

I'm not saying Ray definitely has better one punch power at this weight but I don't think Martinez is any more dangerous for Tommy than Ray was at either weight.

big train express wrote:who wins this? i feel like sergio had the tools to outbox tommy to win a close UD

The Hearns who faced Hagler, Shuler and Roldan, kayoes martinez in 3-4

mugabi wrote:

big train express wrote:who wins this? i feel like sergio had the tools to outbox tommy to win a close UD

The Hearns who faced Hagler, Shuler and Roldan, kayoes martinez in 3-4

The Hearns who faced Virgil Hill does too

The End wrote:

mugabi wrote:

big train express wrote:who wins this? i feel like sergio had the tools to outbox tommy to win a close UD

The Hearns who faced Hagler, Shuler and Roldan, kayoes martinez in 3-4

The Hearns who faced Virgil Hill does too

Bit unfair as that 175lb version of Tommy looked marginally bigger than Hill!

Marlin Starfish wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:I agree that Hearns had an underrated chin, but I think his chin was merely average, not glass as some would have you believe. Still, I can't believe that Leonard at welterweight hit harder than Martinez at middleweight, so I still believe that Martinez has a shot at winning my KO. He certainly wouldn't out-slick Hearns, though, as The Hitman was never really outboxed by anyone, and it wouldn't be Martinez's style to rough him up. Ultimately I think both fighters are potential KO victims in this matchup, but overall I favour Hearns on points with a Hearns KO being the second most likely outcome.

Ray carried his power higher than Sergio. He badly hurt Tommy in their rematch (168) and battered Lalonde (admittedly weight drained) at 168/175.

I'm not saying Ray definitely has better one punch power at this weight but I don't think Martinez is any more dangerous for Tommy than Ray was at either weight.

Fair comment, my feeling is that Martinez at middleweight probably has a little more pop than Leonard at welterweight. I agree that Martinez would be no more dangerous (in fact probably less dangerous) for Hearns than Leonard, but at middleweight I feel that Sergio's punching power becomes a factor in this matchup, which I favour Hearns to win, though Martinez would have a good punchers chance.

Marlin Starfish wrote:

The End wrote:

mugabi wrote: The Hearns who faced Hagler, Shuler and Roldan, kayoes martinez in 3-4

The Hearns who faced Virgil Hill does too

Bit unfair as that 175lb version of Tommy looked marginally bigger than Hill!

True, but as my man Ezz alluded to above, Tommy fighting weight at supermiddle is probably equivalent to Martinez's at middle; we think of Martinez as a "small middle" because he's not one of these six-foot plus thirteen stone not-dried-out freaks (P-Will, Pavlik, Taylor, Chavez etc), but he'd dwarf any middleweight of say twenty years ago by the time he gets in the ring.

I'd take any version of Tommy over Martinez. I think Martinez would have shitloads of problems with the jab & length of Tommy, though I concede that Martinez could spark him. When Pavlik got it together in the middle rounds Martinez became ineffective; though he struggled with the sheer size of Kelly, until his big 9th round rally Martinez looked on the way to losing there. But then again, Pavlik outweighed him by something like fifteen pounds in the ring. Weight classes make my head hurt, these days.

On reflection, we might as well pit Tommy at middle versus Martinez at light-middle, circa the Richard Williams fights... My money's still on Hearns.

Think Hearns was about the same as Sergio for the Andries fight.

may be wrong but he was a genuine light heavy against Hill.

And I don't agree that Martinez hit harder than Ray did at all. neither in a 'p4p sense' (Ray ranks much harder for welterweight hitters than martinez does for middle) or in a true reflection of their actual pwoer (as I say, Ray looked a hard puncher weighing about the same as Sergio does nowadays, against Hearns II and Lalonde)

Sportofkings wrote:Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Iran Barkley did.

I favor Hearns here but those who think its an early KO overestimating Hearns and underestimating Martinez. If Sergio gets stopped it will be late and not early.

dempseyfire wrote:I favor Hearns here but those who think its an early KO overestimating Hearns and underestimating Martinez. If Sergio gets stopped it will be late and not early.

True. There's always the chance he gets hit with one perfectly, but he's crafty & flighty & resilient.

Hearns easy as he is a great boxer and murderous puncher

Martinez is getting a little under rated at the moment. He does posess the power to shut Hearns down if he catches him, IF he catches him.

I favor Hearns of course, in an exciting early rounds fight, then possibly a Hearns stoppage, late.

Syntax Error wrote:

Sportofkings wrote:Nobody outboxes Tommy, you win by outfighting him.

Iran Barkley did.

Barkley did beat Hearns on point in their rematch, but it wasn't a prime Hearns and Barkley beat him more with pressure, volume and a solid chin, which I consider outfighting, not outboxing. It's the same as saying that Ricardo Mayorga outboxed Vernon Forrest in their rematch.

'Frilla wrote:Martinez is getting a little under rated at the moment. He does posess the power to shut Hearns down if he catches him, IF he catches him.

I favor Hearns of course, in an exciting early rounds fight, then possibly a Hearns stoppage, late.

Martinez under rated? I was thinking the exact opposite. Come on he has ONE ......ONE knockout of an elite opponent and now he's Julian Jackson? Based on him beating Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik he's able to compete wih Thomas Hearns? It was said earlier in this thread Martinez is not as slick as he thinks. He took some leather from Williams in their first fight and was even dropped and also got dropped by Pavlik. Hearns would've smelled blood and sent him on his way. A more realistic match-up would be Martinez vs Vernon Forrest.

'Frilla wrote:Martinez is getting a little under rated at the moment. He does posess the power to shut Hearns down if he catches him, IF he catches him.

I favor Hearns of course, in an exciting early rounds fight, then possibly a Hearns stoppage, late.

Martinez under rated? I was thinking the exact opposite. Come on he has ONE ......ONE knockout of an elite opponent and now he's Julian Jackson? Based on him beating Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik he's able to compete wih Thomas Hearns? It was said earlier in this thread Martinez is not as slick as he thinks. He took some leather from Williams in their first fight and was even dropped and also got dropped by Pavlik. Hearns would've smelled blood and sent him on his way. A more realistic match-up would be Martinez vs Vernon Forrest.

i love how older fighters are immortal. yes he was dropped by pavlik and williams but he wasnt hurt from either knockdowns. the pavlik kd didnt hurt him one bit. he was just unbalanced.