BoxRec

Watching Marciano-Walcott II last night I felt the 10 count went real quick. (not that it would have made much difference in the ultimate outcome)

Are there any other examples you can think of where the count went quick or where the fighter possibly beat the 10 count?

Frank Sikora counted fast in the Floyd Patterson v Archie Moore and first Sonny Liston v.Floyd Patterson bouts, but again I don´t think it mattered..

Woller

Woller wrote:Frank Sikora counted fast in the Floyd Patterson v Archie Moore and first Sonny Liston v.Floyd Patterson bouts, but again I don´t think it mattered..

Woller

Well, I think Sikora was also the ref for Marciano-Walcott II so maybe that is just how he did things. Too quick a count for my liking.

Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

Foreman definitely beat that count.

It was the only time he was ever, "knocked out," too, making it all the more indecent (although he was liable to be KO'd soon after the 8th anyway).

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

he was reigning champ and made the count
and it was the end of the round. this was
really terrible. wouldn't have made a diff though.

man wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

he was reigning champ and made the count
and it was the end of the round. this was
really terrible. wouldn't have made a diff though.

Actually if you time it from the moment Foreman's glove hits the floor (a fighter being down when any part of his body other than the soles of his feet is in contact with the canvas), Foreman was down for a full 10 seconds. Closer to 11.

SolomonDeedes wrote:

man wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

he was reigning champ and made the count
and it was the end of the round. this was
really terrible. wouldn't have made a diff though.

Actually if you time it from the moment Foreman's glove hits the floor (a fighter being down when any part of his body other than the soles of his feet is in contact with the canvas), Foreman was down for a full 10 seconds. Closer to 11.

And it's not like he was really ready to continue anyway. Ali beat the piss out of him, and George pretty much had nothing left at that point.

The Great John L wrote: And it's not like he was really ready to continue anyway. Ali beat the piss out of him, and George pretty much had nothing left at that point.

I disagree, George missed the count but had he beaten the count he would have continued for sure. He got up from much worse vs. Lyle and had he not missed the count in Zaire he could well have gone the distance and dropped a decision. George was never going to win the fight but Ali was pretty tired too.

Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

klompton wrote:Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

He was more zonked when Lyle bounced him off the canvas. I'm not saying he would have lasted the distance for sure but I would not rule it out either.

SolomonDeedes wrote:

man wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

he was reigning champ and made the count
and it was the end of the round. this was
really terrible. wouldn't have made a diff though.

Actually if you time it from the moment Foreman's glove hits the floor (a fighter being down when any part of his body other than the soles of his feet is in contact with the canvas), Foreman was down for a full 10 seconds. Closer to 11.

the only footage i know is the one with the
commentator yelling the count and foreman
was on his feet at about nine. was the count
a little long - that is not george's business.

i think ali would have caught him three rounds
later anyways. regarding the lyle fight ... i think
foreman got up that often because of zaire, but
in zaire he was too surprised and his ego
too much torn apart to dig out the bravery he
later on showed he possessed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZIxV9KWgY

Why is this considered a quick count?

dempseyfire wrote:Ali-Foreman is one of the worst.

How so?

man wrote:the only footage i know is the one with the
commentator yelling the count and foreman
was on his feet at about nine. was the count
a little long - that is not george's business.

i think ali would have caught him three rounds
later anyways. regarding the lyle fight ... i think
foreman got up that often because of zaire, but
in zaire he was too surprised and his ego
to much torn apart to dig out the bravery he
later on showed he possessed.

just realize my own BS ... since i try to make the
case that he DID get up in zaire.

klompton wrote:Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

C'mon klompton, in George Foreman Fantasyland all things are possible

crusader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZIxV9KWgY

Why is this considered a quick count?

every time i see it i think the same: fishy stoppage.

Its more telling that Foreman didnt protest the stoppage, ever that Im aware of. In fact he said he believed he was poisoned which would tend to give the listener the impression that he was clearly stopped and in no condition to go on. I think people are mistaking Bob Sheridans count with the actual ref's count. A couple of points. Watch the clock when Foreman goes down and when the count is completed, its exactly 10 seconds. Secondly, Sheridan is clearly trying to speed his count up as the ref's nears 10 because he is clearly out of synch with the actual count by several seconds. Finally, whether it is near the end of the round or not is besides the point. The ref may not know when in the round it is, and nor is it his job to, nor should he take that in to consideration. If there even was a 10 second warning at the end of the round (which is debateable) it wouldnt have been heard because of the uproar when Foreman went down. I dont see anything even remotely fishy in the stoppage. If its fishy the Foreman defenders need to take issue with their hero because he shuffled back to his corner resigned to defeat and has since made several excuses about why he lost and none of them to my memory have ever mentioned a quick count (which it wasnt).

I can see arguing that a count was too long when it went longer than an actual 10 seconds (which isnt even how the rules are written) but to complain that a is too short when the count is exactly 10 seconds seems like cheerleading to me.

The Great John L wrote:

klompton wrote:Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

C'mon klompton, in George Foreman Fantasyland all things are possible

I apologize for suggesting that Foreman could have gone on after one of the most devastating knock downs of all time in possibly the greatest fight of all time. I see now that such a statement is in fact a criticism of the great Ali and his massive power. I stand corrected and I'm really sorry. Well not really

Nobody was suggesting he could not have gotten up. What is at question is whether it was a quick count (it wasnt) and whether he could have gone another 8 rounds after being exhausted and having been knocked down and into lala land (highly unlikely).

hhaehre wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

klompton wrote:Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

C'mon klompton, in George Foreman Fantasyland all things are possible

I apologize for suggesting that Foreman could have gone on after one of the most devastating knock downs of all time in possibly the greatest fight of all time. I see now that such a statement is in fact a criticism of the great Ali and his massive power. I stand corrected and I'm really sorry. Well not really

John L. doesnt come to us on this topic from the usual position of starry-eyed Ali adoration. Study his posts, and youll see Boxrec's foremost Foreman hater. Youll never penetrate that hardened exterior of stupidity he displays (otherwise, a pretty decent poster actually, but he cant handle Foreman), whenever Big George's name comes up.

man wrote:

crusader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZIxV9KWgY

Why is this considered a quick count?

every time i see it i think the same: fishy stoppage.

Why is it fishy?

Foreman goes down with 11 seconds remaining, while Sheridan reaches a count of 8 with no time remaining. It took him three seconds to progress from 7 to 8, so he was out of sync with the more accurate count of the referee, which Foreman clearly didn't beat.

hhaehre wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

klompton wrote:Are you kidding me? He was zonked after getting up from the knockdown. He was done. Factor in that he was exhausted PRIOR to the knockdown, and Ali was plenty fresh and its pretty academic.

C'mon klompton, in George Foreman Fantasyland all things are possible

I apologize for suggesting that Foreman could have gone on after one of the most devastating knock downs of all time in possibly the greatest fight of all time. I see now that such a statement is in fact a criticism of the great Ali and his massive power. I stand corrected and I'm really sorry. Well not really

crusader wrote:

man wrote:

crusader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZIxV9KWgY

Why is this considered a quick count?

every time i see it i think the same: fishy stoppage.

Why is it fishy?

Foreman goes down with 11 seconds remaining, while Sheridan reaches a count of 8 with no time remaining. It took him three seconds to progress from 7 to 8, so he was out of sync with the more accurate count of the referee, which Foreman clearly didn't beat.

he was the undefeated reigning champ who more
or less beat the count at the very last second of
the round in a fight were he constantly went forward
and was in no seriously trouble up to that point. had it
been the other way round the world to this day would
say it was an early stoppage. ali had a loooot of bonus
going into this fight.

Foreman didn't beat the count though. If you pause the video at 2:51 it's clear that he was getting up, not already up, as Clayton stopped the fight.

The clock shows that Foreman was down for 11 seconds and he failed to beat a standard count; there was nothing 'fishy' about the stoppage.