BoxRec

what would happen in an actual fight between these two. Lets have a detailed description of the fight and the issues both would have to deal with rather than a simple Ali wpts 12. etc. Thanks

as difficult as frazier.

I would favor a peak Ali but VERY narrowly.
In many ways Dempsey is a stiffer test than Frazier . . .bigger puncher, quicker, more explosive, at his peak harder to hit. Ali of course would come with his usual advantages . . amazing speed and athleticism for a man his size and a great outside game. This would be as good as the first Ali-Frazier fight.

If Ali came to the dance with the attitude he had in the FOC....he loses. you know the statement...("It'll be like a pro vs an amateur") He comes mentally prepared as he did in the second fight.....he would squeak by. Even if the ref gave Jack a few extra moments to catch his breath if Muhammad started to hammer him a bit too soundly.

BoxBuzz wrote:If Ali came to the dance with the attitude he had in the FOC....he loses. you know the statement...("It'll be like a pro vs an amateur") He comes mentally prepared as he did in the second fight.....he would squeak by. Even if the ref gave Jack a few extra moments to catch his breath if Muhammad started to hammer him a bit too soundly.

Ali SD.

Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

i agree

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:If Ali came to the dance with the attitude he had in the FOC....he loses. you know the statement...("It'll be like a pro vs an amateur") He comes mentally prepared as he did in the second fight.....he would squeak by. Even if the ref gave Jack a few extra moments to catch his breath if Muhammad started to hammer him a bit too soundly.

x2

No, make it x10.

Put down the crack pipe, Buzz.

So you don't think humility would serve?

If he honestly thought there was a huge gap between his and Fraziers skills, he was given a lesson wasn't he?

He seemed a bit contrite and willing to take less chances the second time around.... so I'm confused why my thoughts are laughable....(any more or less than they always are by my fellow "experts". lol)

So....if he comes in cocky, and assured that he will make a fool of Dempsey....that's going to serve him well? I doubt you'll convince me....but Please clarify.....I've put down the hash pipe......and wait for true enlightenment.

I pick Ali by clear decision. I think Ali's movement and jab would be a nightmare for Dempsey.

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Yes, Dempsey never faced an Ali, but it goes vice versa. And to say Dempsey would be overwhelmed by Ali's power is laughable. Speed kills speed and Dempsey's footspeed and explosiveness would give Ali a TON of problems.

Borinken25 wrote:I pick Ali by clear decision. I think Ali's movement and jab would be a nightmare for Dempsey.

Tend to agree with this.

BoxBuzz wrote:So you don't think humility would serve?

If he honestly thought there was a huge gap between his and Fraziers skills, he was given a lesson wasn't he?

He seemed a bit contrite and willing to take less chances the second time around.... so I'm confused why my thoughts are laughable....(any more or less than they always are by my fellow "experts". lol)

So....if he comes in cocky, and assured that he will make a fool of Dempsey....that's going to serve him well? I doubt you'll convince me....but Please clarify.....I've put down the hash pipe......and wait for true enlightenment.

Any notion that Ali took Frazier lightly in the FOTC is bullshit.

He knew he was in for the fight of his life going into 3/8/71.

He was trying to screw with Frazier's head with the clown moves early on.

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So you don't think humility would serve?

If he honestly thought there was a huge gap between his and Fraziers skills, he was given a lesson wasn't he?

He seemed a bit contrite and willing to take less chances the second time around.... so I'm confused why my thoughts are laughable....(any more or less than they always are by my fellow "experts". lol)

So....if he comes in cocky, and assured that he will make a fool of Dempsey....that's going to serve him well? I doubt you'll convince me....but Please clarify.....I've put down the hash pipe......and wait for true enlightenment.

Any notion that Ali took Frazier lightly in the FOTC is bullshit.

He knew he was in for the fight of his life going into 3/8/71.

He was trying to screw with Frazier's head with the clown moves early on.

The idea that he just kind of winged it for the biggest fight of his career...

gotcha

But I think Frazier was his medicine. Don't think I've made much of a secret of that.

I do think Ali believed his own hype. But Joe instructed him otherwise.

Not to say that he didn't go in at the best he could muster "Pre FOTC Whuppin".

But Joe genuinely taught him that would need to "kick it up a notch"....lol.

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Yes, Dempsey never faced an Ali, but it goes vice versa. And to say Dempsey would be overwhelmed by Ali's power is laughable. Speed kills speed and Dempsey's footspeed and explosiveness would give Ali a TON of problems.

Finally, somebody on this internet with a brain.

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Yes, Dempsey never faced an Ali, but it goes vice versa. And to say Dempsey would be overwhelmed by Ali's power is laughable. Speed kills speed and Dempsey's footspeed and explosiveness would give Ali a TON of problems.

Finally, somebody on this internet with a brain.

Ali bigger n faster than Tunney . Dempsey lost to the best he fought (Tunney)and did not fight the other best of his day. Ali beat the best guys he fought except Holmes n fought sum of the best in heavy history. Ali too big n fast for Dempsey plus he had the chin to absorb almost anything. This is just my humble opinion

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Yes, Dempsey never faced an Ali, but it goes vice versa. And to say Dempsey would be overwhelmed by Ali's power is laughable. Speed kills speed and Dempsey's footspeed and explosiveness would give Ali a TON of problems.

Dempsey seemed to have major problems with catching up to The Great Tunney. Imo Ali is even faster than Tunney

Dempsey was old.

And lets not go the Conn route of mistaking Tunney for a smaller Ali. They had major distinctions.

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:Easy one. Dempsey = a quicker version of Joe Frazier with a better chin. Dempsey by decision.

Better chin than Frazier? Based on what? Dempsey was stagered and dropped by fighters that would have barely buckled Fraziers knees.

Dempsey never faced anyone remotely like Ali. He would be befulled by his combination of size, speed, movement and yes, Ali's power.
Ali clear dec or late tko.

Dempsey was stopped only once in over 83 fights, and that was a likely dive. Dempsey getting dropped/stunned by Firpo and Carpentier isn't any worse than Frazier getting hurt and dropped twice by Bonavena or having his knees buckle vs Joe Bugner/Manuel Ramos.

Dempsey didn't fight those guys after barely ten pro bouts. Of course you know that, but choose not to mention it as you overrate your hero. Dempsey would have been slaughtered by either Frazier or Ali.

As for the fight, it would be entertaining and Dempsey would probably stun Ali a time or two with hooks while Ali keeps a jab in his face and fires right hands behind it. 11-4 Ali

BoxBuzz wrote:If Ali came to the dance with the attitude he had in the FOC....he loses. you know the statement...("It'll be like a pro vs an amateur") He comes mentally prepared as he did in the second fight.....he would squeak by. Even if the ref gave Jack a few extra moments to catch his breath if Muhammad started to hammer him a bit too soundly.

I see Dempsey winning a first contest between the two. Ali would try and dance early in the first but would find jack just walks him down and coming in in that crouch (superior to Nortons) lashing the left hook and right that Frazier didnt have.... in the first round, Ali would get dragged into a brawl and fight stationary...its a tough night for Ali. It would be a real pier 6 brawl, similar to the first Frazier fight....... with Dempsey breaking Alis jaw on the way to a close decision win.

In the rematch(es) Ali would just figure out a way, probably by boxing more/better.