BoxRec

I have just watched a re-run of the Khan vs Garcia fight because i wasn't going to stay up late to watch it

I think that Khan has good speed, he does have good technique, but only in going forward, he can't fight off the back foot, has little defence and definately has a suspect chin. If Khan fights to a particular tactic and the guy in front hasn't got much power, then he can deliver a result, but so often Khan doesn't stick to a game plan, gets into needless exchanges and either comes undone, ie Prescott, Garcia, looks in trouble or survives through luck, ie Maidana. Khan has heart, that is for sure, but his ring intelligence is pretty poor and as people have noted already, the first knock down punch he shipped came about because of the punches and stance he found himself in at that moment.

If we go back to when Khan first started, he was a fighter who liked to come forward and it seemed his goal was to try and blast everyone out of the ring within the shortest amount of time possible. Khan felt he could do this because the guys he was fighting were distinctly average domest fighters, who had been hand picked so they had no noted power and were often from a weight below, ie, super featherweight as was the case with St Clair. After a few fights Khan got over confident, thought he carried huge power and started to get in full blown exchanges and found himself on teh canvas numerous times. Not in a Garcia or Prescott fashion, but enough to suggest that the chin was a problem, that he didn't carry the power that he initially thought and that some major changes in style had to occur as he progressed through the levels.

Then came the Prescott fight which confirmed this view, up popped Freddie Roach and the career was re-aligned and some good victories followed plus a world title, media headlines, chat show appearances etc etc. By the time of the Judah fight, it was as if people had forgotten his earlier career misshaps, the Prescott fight, the maidana melt down and assumed that this kid was now all invincible, a Freddie Roach protege, akin to being the next Pacquaio, a fighter that was on the verge of fighting Mayweather. The fact was that Roach had concentrated on Khan's positives, his speed, his accuracy, his punch delivery, but had just tried to negate the weaknesses by covering up the chin, enforcing that in - out style, keep on your feet etc, but he never could alter Khans attacking mindset, toughen that chin or give him proper ring craft or a durable defence.

I think that Khan is a good fighter, but he has too many weaknesses in his all round game to be considered a truely world class fighter, that can take on comparable opposition. He looks good against has beens, ie Judah, Malignaggi and the never were's such as Kotelnik, but when he faces prime opposition, he looks fragile at times and its a roller coaster ride to the end of the fight. I think that Khan has gotten great PR since his career started and people like Jeff Powell write about him without critical analysis, full of praise, forever bulling him up to be not only a great fighter, but a champion of the people, a spokesman for a generation. It's total crap and whilst he is a good fighter, who could go on to gain other world titles, he isn't in the company of Mayweather, Pacquaio and other elite fighters. I think that people view Khan as being better than he is through a powerful media clique that willfully look past his weaknesses and seek to promote overblown PR, because at the end of the day, his marketability makes a lot of money for a lot of people

Quixall wrote:I have just watched a re-run of the Khan vs Garcia fight because i wasn't going to stay up late to watch it

I think that Khan has good speed, he does have good technique, but only in going forward, he can't fight off the back foot, has little defence and definately has a suspect chin. If Khan fights to a particular tactic and the guy in front hasn't got much power, then he can deliver a result, but so often Khan doesn't stick to a game plan, gets into needless exchanges and either comes undone, ie Prescott, Garcia, looks in trouble or survives through luck, ie Maidana. Khan has heart, that is for sure, but his ring intelligence is pretty poor and as people have noted already, the first knock down punch he shipped came about because of the punches and stance he found himself in at that moment.

If we go back to when Khan first started, he was a fighter who liked to come forward and it seemed his goal was to try and blast everyone out of the ring within the shortest amount of time possible. Khan felt he could do this because the guys he was fighting were distinctly average domest fighters, who had been hand picked so they had no noted power and were often from a weight below, ie, super featherweight as was the case with St Clair. After a few fights Khan got over confident, thought he carried huge power and started to get in full blown exchanges and found himself on teh canvas numerous times. Not in a Garcia or Prescott fashion, but enough to suggest that the chin was a problem, that he didn't carry the power that he initially thought and that some major changes in style had to occur as he progressed through the levels.

Then came the Prescott fight which confirmed this view, up popped Freddie Roach and the career was re-aligned and some good victories followed plus a world title, media headlines, chat show appearances etc etc. By the time of the Judah fight, it was as if people had forgotten his earlier career misshaps, the Prescott fight, the maidana melt down and assumed that this kid was now all invincible, a Freddie Roach protege, akin to being the next Pacquaio, a fighter that was on the verge of fighting Mayweather. The fact was that Roach had concentrated on Khan's positives, his speed, his accuracy, his punch delivery, but had just tried to negate the weaknesses by covering up the chin, enforcing that in - out style, keep on your feet etc, but he never could alter Khans attacking mindset, toughen that chin or give him proper ring craft or a durable defence.

I think that Khan is a good fighter, but he has too many weaknesses in his all round game to be considered a truely world class fighter, that can take on comparable opposition. He looks good against has beens, ie Judah, Malignaggi and the never were's such as Kotelnik, but when he faces prime opposition, he looks fragile at times and its a roller coaster ride to the end of the fight. I think that Khan has gotten great PR since his career started and people like Jeff Powell write about him without critical analysis, full of praise, forever bulling him up to be not only a great fighter, but a champion of the people, a spokesman for a generation. It's total crap and whilst he is a good fighter, who could go on to gain other world titles, he isn't in the company of Mayweather, Pacquaio and other elite fighters. I think that people view Khan as being better than he is through a powerful media clique that willfully look past his weaknesses and seek to promote overblown PR, because at the end of the day, his marketability makes a lot of money for a lot of people

Very similar to my assessment!

He's the perfect example of style and PR over substance - at the world level anyways.

I think he is a great fighter guys but with a shite chin, one who fought like an angry fool and deserved to lose.

Props to that nutter dad of Garcia his plan worked.

Jon Saxon wrote:I think he is a great fighter guys but with a shite chin, one who fought like an angry fool and deserved to lose.

Props to that nutter dad of Garcia his plan worked.

I'd say more a good fighter than a great fighter. I don't like him but I can't deny his heart and that he's usually in good fights.

Great speed, average power, worse defence and a shockingly shite chin.

He's a far better fighter than a PR creation; lots of the media construct has put people off IMO though I'm not sure if he'd have had the same opportunties if he'd not had the media behind him; complex, no?

Quixall wrote:He looks good against has beens, ie Judah

Ironically I think there are a lot of parallels between the two. Exciting fighters who can look great against B-level opposition but whose fundamental flaws are exposed when they step up to the very top.
I'll always credit Khan for being willing to go over to the States and try and rebuild himself, but as others have already said, he doesn't appear to have the ring intelligence to address his shortcomings. Given he's also going to lose the key asset that is his speed over time, the future doesn't bode particularly well, but I think we'll still see him in plenty of exciting fights over the next three/four years. He's certainly still capable of winning a version of the world title if he's matched cautiously.

palooka wrote:He's a far better fighter than a PR creation; lots of the media construct has put people off IMO though I'm not sure if he'd have had the same opportunties if he'd not had the media behind him; complex, no?

I think he is a good fighter who has had great pr..........

He has appeared on all the major chat shows in America, has been billed as being the next big thing, akin to the next Pacquaio, a fighter who could take on and perhaps tame an ageing Mayweather. I think he is a fringe world player who could win a world title against reasonable opposition and maybe the odd top fighter if he rides his luck a little and sticks to an intelligent game plan. The likes of a Berto or an Ortiz come to mind when i say that, but as for a Pacquaio, a Bradley, a Mayweather, then he will always be a little short. Khan will perhaps be one of those fighters that either wins in a blze of glory or gets sunk without trace in fights. I don't think his career is in ruins, it just needs another overhaul, some time taken out and to re-build with some lower class fights. As for a Mayweather type fight, that would just make him some money.

I think Khan has all the physical & technical attributes, but he just lacks ring intelligence. Maybe it will come with a bit more experience & maturity - it's easy to forget he's still only 25.

He could and should have made it an easy night for himself. I'm not hugely impressed with Garcia; he can clearly punch but he's very wild and not the quickest. He won last night because of a single good shot (credit where it's due, though - that's boxing).

I hope Khan doesn't take any sh!t advice and do something stupid, like switch trainers.

Deserter wrote:

Quixall wrote:He looks good against has beens, ie Judah

Ironically I think there are a lot of parallels between the two. Exciting fighters who can look great against B-level opposition but whose fundamental flaws are exposed when they step up to the very top.
I'll always credit Khan for being willing to go over to the States and try and rebuild himself, but as others have already said, he doesn't appear to have the ring intelligence to address his shortcomings. Given he's also going to lose the key asset that is his speed over time, the future doesn't bode particularly well, but I think we'll still see him in plenty of exciting fights over the next three/four years. He's certainly still capable of winning a version of the world title if he's matched cautiously.

Very true Deserter,

I think the Judah comparison is very relevant in Khan's case, as Judah was a guy who could look good against top opposition for a while, ie , Mayweather, but would or could come unstuck against other top fighters, ie, Tsyzu. Again, as you you, a similar type of fighter aswell and Judah is still roughly in the mix these days, abeit at a slightly lower level. I agree that Khan can win other world titles, but as you, he has to matched well and follow a strict game plan. I think he is capable of the odd shock win against other top opponents, but he would have to ride his luck a little and again concentrate on a game plan. It's interesting to note that Khan always seems to get tagged when he looks like he is dominating a fight and never when he is on the back foot looking hopelessly outclassed.

Khan is a great fighter and warrior, if only all boxers were like him.

He seeks out and fights the best, wins some and losses some but he's a class act and someone to look up to and when he does get knocked down he gets back up and like the born fighter he is puts it all on the line.

He is a true credit to British boxing and we're very lucky to have the most exciting fighter in the world at the moment.

Micheal Gomez nailed it though when asked about Khan after their fight "he's a world class fighter with world class vulnerabilities" and that's what makes Khan the must see boxer he is.

Quixall wrote:I have just watched a re-run of the Khan vs Garcia fight because i wasn't going to stay up late to watch it

I think that Khan has good speed, he does have good technique, but only in going forward, he can't fight off the back foot, has little defence and definately has a suspect chin. If Khan fights to a particular tactic and the guy in front hasn't got much power, then he can deliver a result, but so often Khan doesn't stick to a game plan, gets into needless exchanges and either comes undone, ie Prescott, Garcia, looks in trouble or survives through luck, ie Maidana. Khan has heart, that is for sure, but his ring intelligence is pretty poor and as people have noted already, the first knock down punch he shipped came about because of the punches and stance he found himself in at that moment.

If we go back to when Khan first started, he was a fighter who liked to come forward and it seemed his goal was to try and blast everyone out of the ring within the shortest amount of time possible. Khan felt he could do this because the guys he was fighting were distinctly average domest fighters, who had been hand picked so they had no noted power and were often from a weight below, ie, super featherweight as was the case with St Clair. After a few fights Khan got over confident, thought he carried huge power and started to get in full blown exchanges and found himself on teh canvas numerous times. Not in a Garcia or Prescott fashion, but enough to suggest that the chin was a problem, that he didn't carry the power that he initially thought and that some major changes in style had to occur as he progressed through the levels.

Then came the Prescott fight which confirmed this view, up popped Freddie Roach and the career was re-aligned and some good victories followed plus a world title, media headlines, chat show appearances etc etc. By the time of the Judah fight, it was as if people had forgotten his earlier career misshaps, the Prescott fight, the maidana melt down and assumed that this kid was now all invincible, a Freddie Roach protege, akin to being the next Pacquaio, a fighter that was on the verge of fighting Mayweather. The fact was that Roach had concentrated on Khan's positives, his speed, his accuracy, his punch delivery, but had just tried to negate the weaknesses by covering up the chin, enforcing that in - out style, keep on your feet etc, but he never could alter Khans attacking mindset, toughen that chin or give him proper ring craft or a durable defence.

I think that Khan is a good fighter, but he has too many weaknesses in his all round game to be considered a truely world class fighter, that can take on comparable opposition. He looks good against has beens, ie Judah, Malignaggi and the never were's such as Kotelnik, but when he faces prime opposition, he looks fragile at times and its a roller coaster ride to the end of the fight. I think that Khan has gotten great PR since his career started and people like Jeff Powell write about him without critical analysis, full of praise, forever bulling him up to be not only a great fighter, but a champion of the people, a spokesman for a generation. It's total crap and whilst he is a good fighter, who could go on to gain other world titles, he isn't in the company of Mayweather, Pacquaio and other elite fighters. I think that people view Khan as being better than he is through a powerful media clique that willfully look past his weaknesses and seek to promote overblown PR, because at the end of the day, his marketability makes a lot of money for a lot of people

good post , more or less a true summary of the khan story. it could all have turned out very different had they matched him up properly in the begining. he might have developed the necessaary skills to be a dominant fighter.avoiding the thaxtons, stewart, murray of the then lightweight division stunted his ring education and allowed him to think he could move up the levels. ever since his first defeat , to willie limond its been clear that anyone who is genuinely the same weight as khan can beat him...as long as they are not too old , or too light hitting.
now maybe we get over this juvenile fanfare of khan and start getting behind our real boxing champions like burns and froch...guys that are honest ,and came up the hard way ,paying their dues, and not getting everything handed to them on a silver platter.

He's got one mega thing going for him..

Win or lose he's exciting as hell.

exittored wrote:Khan is a great fighter and warrior, if only all boxers were like him.

He seeks out and fights the best, wins some and losses some but he's a class act and someone to look up to and when he does get knocked down he gets back up and like the born fighter he is puts it all on the line.

He is a true credit to British boxing and we're very lucky to have the most exciting fighter in the world at the moment.

Micheal Gomez nailed it though when asked about Khan after their fight "he's a world class fighter with world class vulnerabilities" and that's what makes Khan the must see boxer he is.

I wouldn't say that Khan is a great fighter at all. As a fighter, he is GREAT entertainment and i agree, he was a lot of characteristics that make him a likeable guy when people see past the pr stunts and twitter commmebts et al. I wouldn't say that he seeks out the best. The only fighter where that is the case is Maidana, the rest can't be considered the best. I would say that someone like Carl Froch is the most exciting fighter we have, but Khan is good entertainment and most of his fights are never run of the mill. As for the Michael Gomez comment, it sounds like he just made it up on the spot DD

greenyox3 wrote:I think Khan has all the physical & technical attributes, but he just lacks ring intelligence. Maybe it will come with a bit more experience & maturity - it's easy to forget he's still only 25.

He could and should have made it an easy night for himself. I'm not hugely impressed with Garcia; he can clearly punch but he's very wild and not the quickest. He won last night because of a single good shot (credit where it's due, though - that's boxing).

I hope Khan doesn't take any sh!t advice and do something stupid, like switch trainers.

hes already looking like an old and past it 25.
his last three fights , hardly against stellar opposition have seen him struggle quite badly. now hes fighting nearer the top level hes nowhere close to showing hes elite. he s like rangers in scotland...dominant and coasting until they step into the champions league and have to play some real teams.

You've some good points there Jim and if Khan had faced Thaxton et al while he was still growing/developing he'd have maybe been knocked out of boxing altogether.

Though Khan has had all the mangerial and promotional advantages they wren't handed to him on a silver platter - they were earnt on the back of an Olympic Silver medal, gained at age 17, at a time when British boxing needed reinvigorating, I'm no fan of his persona and flag draping etc but he deserves more respect as a boxer. (Fast forward 6 months and if Burns loses to Mitchell he'd have never done anything in his life to many posters, he'd be a write off).

jimcook wrote:

Quixall wrote:I have just watched a re-run of the Khan vs Garcia fight because i wasn't going to stay up late to watch it

I think that Khan has good speed, he does have good technique, but only in going forward, he can't fight off the back foot, has little defence and definately has a suspect chin. If Khan fights to a particular tactic and the guy in front hasn't got much power, then he can deliver a result, but so often Khan doesn't stick to a game plan, gets into needless exchanges and either comes undone, ie Prescott, Garcia, looks in trouble or survives through luck, ie Maidana. Khan has heart, that is for sure, but his ring intelligence is pretty poor and as people have noted already, the first knock down punch he shipped came about because of the punches and stance he found himself in at that moment.

If we go back to when Khan first started, he was a fighter who liked to come forward and it seemed his goal was to try and blast everyone out of the ring within the shortest amount of time possible. Khan felt he could do this because the guys he was fighting were distinctly average domest fighters, who had been hand picked so they had no noted power and were often from a weight below, ie, super featherweight as was the case with St Clair. After a few fights Khan got over confident, thought he carried huge power and started to get in full blown exchanges and found himself on teh canvas numerous times. Not in a Garcia or Prescott fashion, but enough to suggest that the chin was a problem, that he didn't carry the power that he initially thought and that some major changes in style had to occur as he progressed through the levels.

Then came the Prescott fight which confirmed this view, up popped Freddie Roach and the career was re-aligned and some good victories followed plus a world title, media headlines, chat show appearances etc etc. By the time of the Judah fight, it was as if people had forgotten his earlier career misshaps, the Prescott fight, the maidana melt down and assumed that this kid was now all invincible, a Freddie Roach protege, akin to being the next Pacquaio, a fighter that was on the verge of fighting Mayweather. The fact was that Roach had concentrated on Khan's positives, his speed, his accuracy, his punch delivery, but had just tried to negate the weaknesses by covering up the chin, enforcing that in - out style, keep on your feet etc, but he never could alter Khans attacking mindset, toughen that chin or give him proper ring craft or a durable defence.

I think that Khan is a good fighter, but he has too many weaknesses in his all round game to be considered a truely world class fighter, that can take on comparable opposition. He looks good against has beens, ie Judah, Malignaggi and the never were's such as Kotelnik, but when he faces prime opposition, he looks fragile at times and its a roller coaster ride to the end of the fight. I think that Khan has gotten great PR since his career started and people like Jeff Powell write about him without critical analysis, full of praise, forever bulling him up to be not only a great fighter, but a champion of the people, a spokesman for a generation. It's total crap and whilst he is a good fighter, who could go on to gain other world titles, he isn't in the company of Mayweather, Pacquaio and other elite fighters. I think that people view Khan as being better than he is through a powerful media clique that willfully look past his weaknesses and seek to promote overblown PR, because at the end of the day, his marketability makes a lot of money for a lot of people

good post , more or less a true summary of the khan story. it could all have turned out very different had they matched him up properly in the begining. he might have developed the necessaary skills to be a dominant fighter.avoiding the thaxtons, stewart, murray of the then lightweight division stunted his ring education and allowed him to think he could move up the levels. ever since his first defeat , to willie limond its been clear that anyone who is genuinely the same weight as khan can beat him...as long as they are not too old , or too light hitting.
now maybe we get over this juvenile fanfare of khan and start getting behind our real boxing champions like burns and froch...guys that are honest ,and came up the hard way ,paying their dues, and not getting everything handed to them on a silver platter.

Very true Jim,

He completely avoided most of the top British opposition at the timeand as you say he missed out on a huge learning curve in doing so. He was matched with people who his management felt he could beat style wise. This is why Kell Brook's last fight was great for him, because it brought home some truths about his limitations and he will learn from that fight and not believe or wallow in all the praise he was being given prior to that fight with Jones. Unfortunately for Khan, he never had that type of fight and the first time his wings fell off was against prescott. Khan never really took a backward step in his career and though he had moved to Freddie Roach's gym, his management were still carefully selecting opponents, primarily to get that world title shot. Consequently, he never took a lot of fights that would help him develop into a more rounded fighter, so now he is pretty set in his ways and relies on a particular set of skils, most notably his speed and this is not enough of an all round base to get you through top world title fights.

Brook was lucky he boxed Carson Jones and not Mike Jones.

palooka wrote:Brook was lucky he boxed Carson Jones and not Mike Jones.

I think that Jones was brought in primarly to to what he did. It was Eddie's way of trying to gauge how far away he was from a proper world title challenge, because he knew in his heart of hearts that Brook wasn't ready and as it happenned the Jones fight well and truely showed that.

Quixall wrote:

palooka wrote:Brook was lucky he boxed Carson Jones and not Mike Jones.

I think that Jones was brought in primarly to to what he did. It was Eddie's way of trying to gauge how far away he was from a proper world title challenge, because he knew in his heart of hearts that Brook wasn't ready and as it happenned the Jones fight well and truely showed that.

You have to wonder if Brook will ever be ready?

He's be a pro for 8 years now & that is a very long time in modern boxing to be a up & comer.

Jones' showing was nothing to do with Eddies crystal ball and dynamic forward thinking. Carson fought far harder than anyone imagined he would. Hearn brought him in to look great against, that's why he was disappointed afterward.

Syntax Error wrote:

Quixall wrote:

palooka wrote:Brook was lucky he boxed Carson Jones and not Mike Jones.

I think that Jones was brought in primarly to to what he did. It was Eddie's way of trying to gauge how far away he was from a proper world title challenge, because he knew in his heart of hearts that Brook wasn't ready and as it happenned the Jones fight well and truely showed that.

You have to wonder if Brook will ever be ready?

He's be a pro for 8 years now & that is a very long time in modern boxing to be a up & comer.

I think that he is short of being a world level fighter........

I think with the right opponent and with all the alphabet titles out there, he can be a "world champion" but as for top rated opposition, i don't think he will cut the mustard at all. As you say, he is slightly old to be considered an up and coming fighter. He perhaps will have a kind of Ryan Rhodes / Junior Witter typr career, there or there abouts but not the tops.

palooka wrote:Jones' showing was nothing to do with Eddies crystal ball and dynamic forward thinking. Carson fought far harder than anyone imagined he would. Hearn brought him in to look great against, that's why he was disappointed afterward.

I don't think that Eddie has a crystal ball, but anyone can see that Brook is some way off fighting top level opponents, you don't need a crystal ball to know that. You can't establish much from beating Hatton and an old Ndou, so Carson was the perfect opponent for Brook. If he looks good, great, if he doesn't then it tells us that he is some way off, needs work and the timescale gets put back. I think that the Jones fight confirmed to Ediie that Brook is not the next big thing, he never was going to be that, but with selective opponents, he can gain an alphabet title and with the right media exposure gain a big fight, lose it, but make some big money along the way.

I can appreciate your point of view; I'm not sure though that they'll be packing thousands in the same when people know he's the 'never going to be' or the'wait and see' instead of 'the next sure thing'.

palooka wrote:I can appreciate your point of view; I'm not sure though that they'll be packing thousands in the same when people know he's the 'never going to be' or the'wait and see' instead of 'the next sure thing'.

But Palooka, with the greatest of respect to the general public, they can be hood winked far easier than the likes of you and me who have a little more knowledge and savvy regards the fight game and how good fighters are or can be