Page 1 of 1
The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 17:15
by elmersalsa
Who in your view was the most controversial fighter of all time?
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 17:38
by Expug
yep,theres some controversy on that list of heavyweights.
gotta throw in Ruben Carter though. Murder indictments,trials,songs,movies,hollywood outrage,probably poems and sonnets as well.
Lots of drama surrounding "The Hurricane".
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 17:38
by SaadOffTheDeck
Floyd, it's the sole reason he is one of the biggest fighters in the history of the sport.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 17:45
by Expug
James Scott is another one. Fighting out of The joint.
Luis Resto along with his partner in crime Panama Lewis.
Jake Lamotta for doin the old flip flop.
Al "Bummy" Davis.
A few more there.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 18:08
by yancey
Why is Holmes listed in this poll?
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 19:30
by dajuggernaut
For the most epic flying drop kick in the history of time.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 22:21
by dempseyfire
The clear number #1 is Jack Johnson. The guy's fights caused widespread race riots and the attention of federal government lawyers/policy makers to find ways to get him into jail. It's a shame people don't understand how utterly taboo it was in the early 1900s for a black man to go around flaunting his relationships with white woman, especially a worldwide celebrity holding the unofficial title of 'toughest SOB in the world' ie holding the heavyweight championship. It was a time period when white mobs were publicly torturing and executing black men just for rumors of them having sex with white woman. The guy basically looked at the prevailing social norms and, for better or worse, gave them a big middle finger. Even now you don't see popular black athletes having constant white mistresses out in public, and it's been over 100 years now since Johnson. I can't believe I gave him the first vote on here.
Of that list, Ali and Tyson would be the next in line.
Larry Holmes? Floyd Mayweather? Not even in the same league housing a similar ballpark.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 22:33
by dempseyfire
dajuggernaut wrote:For the most epic flying drop kick in the history of time.
Ha, I don't consider that controversial at all, but definitely highly entertaining. Holmes was true street tough. Talk about his wife, and even at 42 years old he will go after you and drop kick you in front of a crowd of people.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 23:04
by scallum
I would vote for Jack Johnson
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 04:00
by bollox
dempseyfire wrote:The clear number #1 is Jack Johnson. The guy's fights caused widespread race riots and the attention of federal government lawyers/policy makers to find ways to get him into jail. It's a shame people don't understand how utterly taboo it was in the early 1900s for a black man to go around flaunting his relationships with white woman, especially a worldwide celebrity holding the unofficial title of 'toughest SOB in the world' ie holding the heavyweight championship. It was a time period when white mobs were publicly torturing and executing black men just for rumors of them having sex with white woman. The guy basically looked at the prevailing social norms and, for better or worse, gave them a big middle finger. Even now you don't see popular black athletes having constant white mistresses out in public, and it's been over 100 years now since Johnson. I can't believe I gave him the first vote on here.
Of that list, Ali and Tyson would be the next in line.
Larry Holmes? Floyd Mayweather? Not even in the same league housing a similar ballpark.
Absolutely spot on regarding Johnson's #1 position. Nobody comes remotely close
Some years ago it was suggested Johnson be pardoned for his 'crimes' regarding transporting a woman across state lines for immoral purposes (whatever da fukk that means???). A wise former poster from here said they NOT pardon him, to highlight the disgraceful treatment he received
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 04:08
by dajuggernaut
bollox wrote:dempseyfire wrote:The clear number #1 is Jack Johnson. The guy's fights caused widespread race riots and the attention of federal government lawyers/policy makers to find ways to get him into jail. It's a shame people don't understand how utterly taboo it was in the early 1900s for a black man to go around flaunting his relationships with white woman, especially a worldwide celebrity holding the unofficial title of 'toughest SOB in the world' ie holding the heavyweight championship. It was a time period when white mobs were publicly torturing and executing black men just for rumors of them having sex with white woman. The guy basically looked at the prevailing social norms and, for better or worse, gave them a big middle finger. Even now you don't see popular black athletes having constant white mistresses out in public, and it's been over 100 years now since Johnson. I can't believe I gave him the first vote on here.
Of that list, Ali and Tyson would be the next in line.
Larry Holmes? Floyd Mayweather? Not even in the same league housing a similar ballpark.
Absolutely spot on regarding Johnson's #1 position. Nobody comes remotely close
Some years ago it was suggested Johnson be pardoned for his 'crimes' regarding transporting a woman across state lines for immoral purposes (whatever da fukk that means???). A wise former poster from here said they NOT pardon him, to highlight the disgraceful treatment he received
That was his future wife if I'm not mistaken.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 11:49
by BoxBuzz
In Johnson's case it was society playing catch up, and he was just incidental to the controversy. He should not have been that controversial. And his ring performance was pretty straightforward. If Johnson didn't fill the role, someon else probably would have.
In Ali's case, he was ahead of his time, or perhaps timing it perfectly...and he did set a precedent for exploiting the press in a new and (for the times) novel way. But in the ring, he was pretty straightforward as well. Even his stand on the war was somewhat "convenient" as there were a lot of people who were feeling the way he was feeling. He got to be the one to set a very important legal precedent....so his "controversial" aspects were genuine....but if he didn't step into that role, I think someone surely would have in the same way as Johnson. Fate made him a "partner". Certainly his public embracing of his faith was precedent setting.
In Tyson's case it was singularly about his personal behavior. In and out of the ring. I think his controversy was more internal...as he was a psyche melting down in public. ...Now they call that a "reality show".
As far as overall impact to society, I would agree that Johnson is probably the #1. But it was more society's controversy than it was Jack's.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 13:24
by Seamus
No contest, Mike Tyson. Unless one of the other guys talked about eating his opponent's children and I managed to miss it.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 15:47
by Seamus
Definitely more controversial. Look at all the other things Tyson said or did. Went to prison for rape, said "I need 6 different medications to keep from killin' y'awl", told Razor Ruddock he'd make him his girlfriend, said he could rent out Madison Square Garden mastrubating.
Guy's with tattoos on there faces say the darndest things.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 16:19
by keithmoonhangover
I think Battling Siki deserves a mention. White wives, guns, pet lions and a whole lot more.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 16:34
by DMA1987
Was Duran not pretty controversial back in the day?
Quitting in the middle of a huge world title fight must be up there.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 16:54
by yancey
I really don't see how Larry Holmes is viewed as all that controversial, but I see 3 voters think he is the most controversial.
Maybe they are just Marciano fans who are eternally pissed off at Larry for his no-no.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 17:25
by scallum
I think this is no contest with Johnson being the Winner here. They actually had riots and folks getting killed. Throw in the circumstances of him having to flee usa, his last title fight and he takes the cake. imo
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 17:29
by BoxBuzz
Hold the phone! What was I thinking? How did I miss this one?
It's Joe Frazier!
For not agreeing to the "plan" for Ali to win the FOTC.
Put a kink into the whole sport! Forces Ali cronies like me to always have to explain how such a thing could have happened!
But after him, I gotta go with Mike....because HE owned it. Whereas, society owned the controversy with Johnson and Ali.
All these fighters were considered highly controversial.....but honestly just being a black champion, or being a black muslim pacifist champion SHOULD NOT be controversial.......that was OUR problem....Not Johnson's or Ali's who were just going about the business of being themselves. But Mike's behavior may well still be considered controversial, even after society has sorted it's major foibles.
Although in today's western world, I suppose a muslim pacifist might be considered controversial. But not in my neighborhood. I happen to know a few.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 23:22
by Ambling Alp
Hard to say who is the most. I do agree with the opinion that Tyson would have been be very controversial in any era. Another controversial fighter was Kid McCoy. Had suspicious fights and later he was convicted of manslaughter.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 26 Jul 2012, 05:20
by man
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Floyd, it's the sole reason he is one of the biggest fighters in the history of the sport.
Re: The Most Controversial Fighter Ever
Posted: 26 Jul 2012, 09:05
by Jaywheel
Charlie Z no contest.
Quit in the middle of a huge fight against Hartley.
Sucker punched the ol' Mayweather during sparring.
E-Thug, Keyboard Warrior and YouTube phenomenon.
Jail.