BoxRec

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 11:25**

Top 5 easy for me

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 13:56**

Ignore. I recommend the mods just save the trouble and lock this up.

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 13:58**

35-60

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 14:53**

35 to 60 seems fair. And should not be considered a slight.

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 15:38**

p4p top twenty for me. i think he gives many ATGs
a hard time.

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 16:42**

BarryWashington wrote:probably top 45-60 is about my range.

This is progress, a few months ago you said he was easily outside of your top 100.

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 17:05**

When I did a top 100 lb for lb a couple of years ago I think he was around 45 or so, and that's where he'd still be now.

Posted: **14 Aug 2012, 18:06**

BarryWashington wrote:probably top 45-60 is about my range.

truly beautiful fighter in terms of skill and from '96-'02 he really had a career that looked like he wanted to be about legacy but then from about '03-'07 he had some decisions im not that supportive of.

i think de la hoya was a part time figher by the time floyd got to him so that was more of a "putting a name" on the resume bout.

the cotto win was a solid win (especially going up in weight). was a very solid fight and cotto looked sharp but im sure most people would have rather seen that match-up circa '07.

the hatton win was a decent win. it could have been solid but i really believe cortez ruined that fight for hatton to use his style what so ever. the referees for duran in his fights against buchanan & sugar ray leonard (first fight) did a good job (IMO) of letting inside action take place where as it seemed like cortez ignored a lot of floyd being the one who was holding on in clinches and was using his forearm-elbow push off constantly and wasn't really warned about it.

the marquez win - eh. not something i would say was great, more of a name win. think marquez sacrificed too much in pursuing that bout (even agreeing to letting floyd not make the original contracted weight and weigh in two pounds more than what was originally planned). i think the marquez a la pacquiao III was much more adjusted at the weight (due to him using modern methods for supplemental training as opposed to his old habits of just forcing up the weight).

the shane win - eh. it looked like a great match-up due to the recent margarito win but when you realize how weight-drained margarito was and wasn't able to use hand-wraps (which is a tactic he could have been using his whole career as pointed out by miguel cotto -- in the hbo face-off for the cotto/margarito II match-up -- where miguel points out the mysterious appearance of margarito's handwraps after their first fight) it doesn't really mean a whole lot to me in hindsight and the fact that mosley truly hadn't looked like a prime shane since the rematch between him and winky.

the ortiz win could have been a very solid win with no excuses BUT that ending is not legitimate what so ever. i was so happy when it happened and fully believe victor deserved it HOWEVER in terms of dissecting a resume with boxing i can't say that was a legit way to win. whether or not ortiz should have been paying attention (since cortez motioned "box") floyd knew ortiz wasn't looking and delivered a one-two that was the end result for their contest. floyd easily could have hit ortiz hard in the arm, chest or even leg but to use that moment as an advantage for a concussive blow isn't a result i'm willing to stand by and say was a solid win for floyd (though up to that point he clearly looked the finer fighter that night).

judah win was a solid win but it still baffles me that judah actually lost to baldomir. good/elite fighters don't lose to baldomir and i will say judah is a good fighter and upsets happen, but, come on . . baldomir? and you have all that speed and you can't beat baldomir? ha

Good post. I'd say with 3/4 really solid wins Floyd could crack top 20/25. Like perhaps Pacquiao, Bradley, Alvarez and some other top guy, maybe Garcia if he turns out as good as he looks and moves up to welter?

Posted: **15 Aug 2012, 04:25**

BarryWashington wrote:probably top 45-60 is about my range.

truly beautiful fighter in terms of skill and from '96-'02 he really had a career that looked like he wanted to be about legacy but then from about '03-'07 he had some decisions im not that supportive of.

i think de la hoya was a part time figher by the time floyd got to him so that was more of a "putting a name" on the resume bout.

the cotto win was a solid win (especially going up in weight). was a very solid fight and cotto looked sharp but im sure most people would have rather seen that match-up circa '07.

the hatton win was a decent win. it could have been solid but i really believe cortez ruined that fight for hatton to use his style what so ever. the referees for duran in his fights against buchanan & sugar ray leonard (first fight) did a good job (IMO) of letting inside action take place where as it seemed like cortez ignored a lot of floyd being the one who was holding on in clinches and was using his forearm-elbow push off constantly and wasn't really warned about it.

the marquez win - eh. not something i would say was great, more of a name win. think marquez sacrificed too much in pursuing that bout (even agreeing to letting floyd not make the original contracted weight and weigh in two pounds more than what was originally planned). i think the marquez a la pacquiao III was much more adjusted at the weight (due to him using modern methods for supplemental training as opposed to his old habits of just forcing up the weight).

the shane win - eh. it looked like a great match-up due to the recent margarito win but when you realize how weight-drained margarito was and wasn't able to use hand-wraps (which is a tactic he could have been using his whole career as pointed out by miguel cotto -- in the hbo face-off for the cotto/margarito II match-up -- where miguel points out the mysterious appearance of margarito's handwraps after their first fight) it doesn't really mean a whole lot to me in hindsight and the fact that mosley truly hadn't looked like a prime shane since the rematch between him and winky.

the ortiz win could have been a very solid win with no excuses BUT that ending is not legitimate what so ever. i was so happy when it happened and fully believe victor deserved it HOWEVER in terms of dissecting a resume with boxing i can't say that was a legit way to win. whether or not ortiz should have been paying attention (since cortez motioned "box") floyd knew ortiz wasn't looking and delivered a one-two that was the end result for their contest. floyd easily could have hit ortiz hard in the arm, chest or even leg but to use that moment as an advantage for a concussive blow isn't a result i'm willing to stand by and say was a solid win for floyd (though up to that point he clearly looked the finer fighter that night).

judah win was a solid win but it still baffles me that judah actually lost to baldomir. good/elite fighters don't lose to baldomir and i will say judah is a good fighter and upsets happen, but, come on . . baldomir? and you have all that speed and you can't beat baldomir? ha

That's a couple of solid wins, a decent win, a couple of name wins and a part-time win...Not much to get him to approx 50?

Posted: **15 Aug 2012, 05:34**

Way to pick apart his resume. However this way u should easily put Duran in like 45-60 p4p

Posted: **15 Aug 2012, 16:30**

Recycle wrote:Way to pick apart his resume. However this way u should easily put Duran in like 45-60 p4p

Duran can accurately say he has a prime win over the best of his era(Leonard). Floyd can't and his window has passed for a win over a prime version of the number 2 guy.

Posted: **15 Aug 2012, 19:32**

I'll let you know when he's through

Posted: **15 Aug 2012, 20:15**

Ezzard wrote:
BarryWashington wrote:probably top 45-60 is about my range.

truly beautiful fighter in terms of skill and from '96-'02 he really had a career that looked like he wanted to be about legacy but then from about '03-'07 he had some decisions im not that supportive of.

i think de la hoya was a part time figher by the time floyd got to him so that was more of a "putting a name" on the resume bout.

the cotto win was a solid win (especially going up in weight). was a very solid fight and cotto looked sharp but im sure most people would have rather seen that match-up circa '07.

the hatton win was a decent win. it could have been solid but i really believe cortez ruined that fight for hatton to use his style what so ever. the referees for duran in his fights against buchanan & sugar ray leonard (first fight) did a good job (IMO) of letting inside action take place where as it seemed like cortez ignored a lot of floyd being the one who was holding on in clinches and was using his forearm-elbow push off constantly and wasn't really warned about it.

the marquez win - eh. not something i would say was great, more of a name win. think marquez sacrificed too much in pursuing that bout (even agreeing to letting floyd not make the original contracted weight and weigh in two pounds more than what was originally planned). i think the marquez a la pacquiao III was much more adjusted at the weight (due to him using modern methods for supplemental training as opposed to his old habits of just forcing up the weight).

the shane win - eh. it looked like a great match-up due to the recent margarito win but when you realize how weight-drained margarito was and wasn't able to use hand-wraps (which is a tactic he could have been using his whole career as pointed out by miguel cotto -- in the hbo face-off for the cotto/margarito II match-up -- where miguel points out the mysterious appearance of margarito's handwraps after their first fight) it doesn't really mean a whole lot to me in hindsight and the fact that mosley truly hadn't looked like a prime shane since the rematch between him and winky.

the ortiz win could have been a very solid win with no excuses BUT that ending is not legitimate what so ever. i was so happy when it happened and fully believe victor deserved it HOWEVER in terms of dissecting a resume with boxing i can't say that was a legit way to win. whether or not ortiz should have been paying attention (since cortez motioned "box") floyd knew ortiz wasn't looking and delivered a one-two that was the end result for their contest. floyd easily could have hit ortiz hard in the arm, chest or even leg but to use that moment as an advantage for a concussive blow isn't a result i'm willing to stand by and say was a solid win for floyd (though up to that point he clearly looked the finer fighter that night).

judah win was a solid win but it still baffles me that judah actually lost to baldomir. good/elite fighters don't lose to baldomir and i will say judah is a good fighter and upsets happen, but, come on . . baldomir? and you have all that speed and you can't beat baldomir? ha
That's a couple of solid wins, a decent win, a couple of name wins and a part-time win...Not much to get him to approx 50?

He poked holes wherever he could, and didn't even mention many of his best wins(Hernandez,Manfredy,Corrales,Castillo,etc). I realize he started by talking about two different eras in his career, but that's the point. He wasn't assesing his whole career, and the part he did, wasn't even accurate,imo.

Hatton was a big win. The fact that cortez didn't let Ricky hold doesn't diminish it, it's a good thing.

Ortiz was legit. Defend yourself at all times, right?

DLH at 154 was still easily top 3, at that time. And he fought Oscar on his terms.

Shane was the lineal champ when Floyd fought him, as was Baldomir. I don't know what more people want.

JMM did have a bit of a size disadvantage, for once Floyd not coming in the smaller guy, so what? I guess Hearns KO of Duran doesn't count.

I'd place him somewhere between #20-30, as of right now.

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 05:45**

Southpaw your a genius you care more about circumstance then performance. Duran lost to most atgs and got embarrassed and quit in a rematch but his rated so highly cuz of his performanceS

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 05:47**

I’m just commenting that Barry has him around 50 but seemed to be saying his record wasn’t that great. But I do agree with his sentiment on those fights.

Without really trying, or looking anything up I tried to name boxers off the top of my head who clearly achieved more than Floyd. Not ones that are close or arguable. I got to about 50 and gave up. If I actually spent some time and effort he’d be lower still.

A talented and hard working guy who was over cautious in the ring and with his career.

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 07:09**

If Ortiz beat Floyd in a similar fashion the same people who called the Floyd win legitimate would never say Ortiz won legitimately.

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 08:25**

Floyd would never do something like Ortiz did, no fighter in history would.

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 08:45**

Isn't the problem that Floyd by being the promoter is paying the other guy's wages? My guess is thyat's why Ortiz couldn't stop apologising. Sh1t fight. Sh1t ending.

Posted: **16 Aug 2012, 13:03**

Well the way I look at it....Mayweather almost lost on points at least to an aged De La Hoya. A 38 year old Mosley almost had him out in the second round, and if the old man hadn't been so rusty/inactive he might have taken him out of there for good if it was a ten years younger Shane in there. He has destroyed and looked very impressive against very very good B level fighters like Judah,Gatti,Ortiz,Hatton who arent quite the true echelon. The fact he has avoided the true "Hagler-SRL 1981 or Hearns -Hagler 1985" moment in a Mayweather-Pacquio bout says a lot.....despite all that the sheer number of very very good if not great fighters he has beaten, his longevity and the fact he has always looked that much better than these guys means he must be rated in a top 100. But I still dont think he beats a Pernell Whittaker, a Aaron Pryor, hell i even think the prime Don Curry schools him so dont ask me what I think Hearns and Leonard do to him or a lightweight Duran.

Posted: **17 Aug 2012, 09:36**

BarryWashington wrote:
Recycle wrote:Southpaw your a genius you care more about circumstance then performance. Duran lost to most atgs and got embarrassed and quit in a rematch but his rated so highly cuz of his performanceS
you do realize Duran was 72-1-0 when he lost to leonard for the first time? did u forget about how legendary his lightweight days were? he then beat Minchillo, put up a tough effort against Benitez (19 pounds above his best weight - Benitez being a guy much more skilled than any one Floyd or Pac have had to face in their careers - though MAB & Morales are close). beat Davey Moore, gave the arguably the best middleweight of all-time a close fight. lost to Hearns (again a guy more dangerous/skilled than any one Floyd or Pac have had to face), then beat Iran Barkley up at 168 (fresh off TKO'ing Hearns). and let's remember duran beat leonard!

duran is top 20 no questions and i dont think there's anything pac or floyd can do at this point to surpass him

Duran 72-0 in a weak lightweight era hey some cus and Angelo agree with that and don't mention A green Marcel. His best win is Buchanan who never got a rematch. Got embarrassed by Benitez beat Moore who was like 10-0 and thought he could slug with duran. Lost a clear decision against hagler whooped by hearns. Great win over Barkley but cmon Barkley was so susceptible to counters had shit defense Duran skills carried him over a skilless puncher. I mean toney whopped that ass bad. If Duran face mccAllum who wanted the fight he would hAve got owned. The only reason Duran had his comebacks were bcos of opponents who were handmade for Duran. Oh yeh a win over Leonard only to be embarrassed and quit in rematches. I see alot of losses with ready made excuses

Posted: **17 Aug 2012, 15:56**

How's your own career going, Barry?

Posted: **17 Aug 2012, 19:29**

I got him rightly so at position #68. He wasted his time in asking the great Manny Pacquiao for blood tests. Something that I would never ever understand. Not a top 50 in my book.

Posted: **17 Aug 2012, 20:09**

BarryWashington wrote:
Recycle wrote:Southpaw your a genius you care more about circumstance then performance. Duran lost to most atgs and got embarrassed and quit in a rematch but his rated so highly cuz of his performanceS
you do realize Duran was 72-1-0 when he lost to leonard for the first time? did u forget about how legendary his lightweight days were? he then beat Minchillo, put up a tough effort against Benitez (19 pounds above his best weight - Benitez being a guy much more skilled than any one Floyd or Pac have had to face in their careers - though MAB & Morales are close). beat Davey Moore, gave the arguably the best middleweight of all-time a close fight. lost to Hearns (again a guy more dangerous/skilled than any one Floyd or Pac have had to face), then beat Iran Barkley up at 168 (fresh off TKO'ing Hearns). and let's remember duran beat leonard!

duran is top 20 no questions and i dont think there's anything pac or floyd can do at this point to surpass him

Duran is probably in the top 5 greatest fighters ever. Who was the best fighter of the 1970's? No, it wasn't Ali. It was Duran.

Posted: **18 Aug 2012, 03:13**

BarryWashington wrote:now what u did was straight up bull shit

guess u forgot about :

de jesus (twice)
thompson
palomino
ortiz
mamby
fernandez

there's no built in excuses with his accomplishments & close fights way up in weight unless u want to be a jackass about things then i guess so

duran top 20 - get over it

Wow thanks for giving me a list of contenders in a weak lw era. What monzon did is dominate a division with strong notable great and a atg fighters. Ask any Duran fan why he lost to srl 2 and they'll he ate himself to death. Weak response all u did was call excuses not excuses and list some contenders Duran beat

Posted: **18 Aug 2012, 03:17**

Although palomino was good

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