BoxRec

Im talking about the confident , fast punching, defensively sound Dokes of 1983....not the shot, slowed down, carry spare pounds shell of 88-90 who pushed Holyfield hard...against Wladimir Klitchko!

Dokes slips the jab,right hand followed by a left hook Klitschko goes down gets up at eight. Dokes swarms him. Ref pulls him off. KO early. First maybe second round.

This be a tough call to make, but Dokes in the 80's had the fastest hands of any heavywieght in the business, and when he brought his A game was a sight to behold. He had such a damn good work rate; and I think if Dokes couldnt be psyched out as a kid in an exhibition against Muhammad Ali, I dont think a towering Ukranian with a piston jab would put fear into him. The best strategy for Dokes would be to increase his work rate, keep Wladimir on the defensive, and never in a position to set up for punches. Dokes, in essence could win a decision if not stop Klitschko in round ten.

Michael would stop Wladimir in the mid-to-late rounds.

I would fancy a prime Wladimir to win by Unanimous Decision.

The 83 version of Dokes ? He had two fights that year and got a gift draw against Weaver in the 1st and KO'd by Coetzee in the other. Dokes' biggest career win was his 1st round TKO of Weaver the previous year, when he was the beneficiary of a highly questionable stoppage. Wlad keeps off with his longer jab and stops him late.

Dokes get so much credit on this board it's ridiculous. What did Dokes ever really do? His reputation is built on sparring a shot Ali, beating up Gardner and losing to Holyfield. When did he ever beat a top notch guy in a convincing manner? Never is the answer. Wlad by late stoppage in an easy fight.

hhaehre wrote:Dokes get so much credit on this board it's ridiculous. What did Dokes ever really do? His reputation is built on sparring a shot Ali, beating up Gardner and losing to Holyfield. When did he ever beat a top notch guy in a convincing manner? Never is the answer. Wlad by late stoppage in an easy fight.

Right, because Holyfield had such an easy time with him too, or because Wlad is a much better heavyweight than Holyfield? I know, styles make fights, but a prime Dokes is better than any of Wlad's opponents and we saw how he struggled with the quick handed Corrie Sanders. I make Wlad a narrow favourite to win by a late stoppage, but it's by no means an easy fight to call.

Interesting hypothetical.

I don't think Dokes' handspeed would be a factor in this one.

Wladimir has the one weapon that a fighter needs to negate great handspeed & that is a piston like jab.

I'd favour Wladimir on points, but it would be well contested fight IMO.

I like Klitschko here. Dokes would have a chance at blitzing Wlad early, but despite his great speed he really didn't have great one-punch power. He also became predictable the longer fights went and he lost steam. I know he was having out-the-ring issues, but seeing him look completely befuddled at Coatzee's jab and movement makes me favor Wlad to survive any early scares and then outbox Dokes down the stretch. The frustrating thing with this though is Wlad's opponents have been so poor, Dokes at his best would clearly be the best opponent he'd had ever faced, so maybe I wrong. I mean, I'd definitely favor a peak Dokes to kick David Haye's ass . . .

dempseyfire wrote: I'd definitely favor a peak Dokes to kick David Haye's ass . . .

I wouldn't, the best fighter Dokes ever beat was either a flabby Young or Tex Cobb. There is no reason to think he would kick Haye's ass, it would probably be a close fight.

Dokes michigen-esque style slick moves negate Wlads robotic jab and right.....these talented 80s HWs on their best day most of them laugh at the robot of 2012 in front of them....I dont give any credence to Dokes sparring session with Ali. I had it on VHS for a long time it was very clear Ali was just taking shots on purpose and letting the young 17 year old man go all out..... the Dokes of 83 in my opinion scores a late rounds stoppage.

On that fight, I'd match all the money you'd care to pony up....My money's on the Robot. Cause he's always got that jab out there keeping Dokes at a distance, and eventually probably finding the mark.

hhaehre wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: I'd definitely favor a peak Dokes to kick David Haye's ass . . .

I wouldn't, the best fighter Dokes ever beat was either a flabby Young or Tex Cobb. There is no reason to think he would kick Haye's ass, it would probably be a close fight.

I'll take Weaver, Cobb and a flabby Jimmy Young over Chisora and a washed up John Ruiz anyday of the week. Dokes was faster than Haye, probably hit just as hard, had a much better chin, and had more skills. I wouldn't pick Haye to last 8 rounds, if that . . .

dempseyfire wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: I'd definitely favor a peak Dokes to kick David Haye's ass . . .

I wouldn't, the best fighter Dokes ever beat was either a flabby Young or Tex Cobb. There is no reason to think he would kick Haye's ass, it would probably be a close fight.

I'll take Weaver, Cobb and a flabby Jimmy Young over Chisora and a washed up John Ruiz anyday of the week. Dokes was faster than Haye, probably hit just as hard, had a much better chin, and had more skills. I wouldn't pick Haye to last 8 rounds, if that . . .

Dokes didn't hit as hard as Haye, he didn't in fact have a lot of power and it would have been a problem for him against Wlad. I'm not saying Dokes was garbage but imo he wasn't much better than Haye, Chambers or Byrd. As for Weaver, he was screwed by the ref in the first fight and by the judges in the second. Based on the second fight I'd say he was flat out better than Dokes.

hhaehre wrote:Dokes didn't hit as hard as Haye, he didn't in fact have a lot of power and it would have been a problem for him against Wlad. I'm not saying Dokes was garbage but imo he wasn't much better than Haye, Chambers or Byrd.

Chambers and Byrd were basically cruiserweights with no punch at HW. If you add they were usually defensive-minded and looked best when countering their opponents (a thing Wlad wouldn't allow as he kept them outside with jab, instead of chasing and trying to kill them like some less intelligent opponents - for example McCline who ran out of gas) it makes them ideal opponents for Wlad. Whatever you say about Dokes, he was at least full-sized HW with normal punch (and a style that IMO would at least give Wlad some trouble).

As much as it pains me to say it. David Haye has faster hands, faster head movement and hits harder than Dokes.

In the past 30 years, there are probably only two, three, heavyweights, tops who had the quickness and fast hands of Michael Dokes.

Seamus wrote:As much as it pains me to say it. David Haye has faster hands, faster head movement and hits harder than Dokes.

No offense Seamus but in which twilight world does Haye have faster hands than a peak Dokes?? He doesnt hit harder either.... most of Hayes big wins have been over cruisers or non entity HWs who would not have got within breathing distance of beating a prime Dokes,Witherspoon, Ruddock or Thomas on their best days

BoxBuzz wrote:On that fight, I'd match all the money you'd care to pony up....My money's on the Robot. Cause he's always got that jab out there keeping Dokes at a distance, and eventually probably finding the mark.

But look at the persons the robot looked so impressive against sticking out that jab?.....thompson? a 50 year old Mercer? Chagaev, Ibragimov? A fat and shot Rahman and Peters? ....back in the early 2000s when there were still some remotely conventionally sized and athletic american HWs like brewster and williamson these guys gave Wlad hell....and id wager all the beer money u like old man on Dokes finding a way inside that jab. He wouldnt look as good or be as explosive as say a Witherspoon but Dokes handspeed and what he bought would take down the mighty oak.

The Boxers of the Past section where either Klitschko couldn't beat any Top 40 contender from any era other than their own. You guys look like such douche's sometimes calling these fights. Wlad wins, and he wins for sure. I don't deny Dokes would put up a great effort and would win his share of rounds, but Wlad is just plain better than him. He'd stop him late or win a clear-cut decision.

Seamus wrote:As much as it pains me to say it. David Haye has faster hands, faster head movement and hits harder than Dokes.

I mean, all one had to do is compare the film. This isn't even an argument:

Haye: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxK0PjLNhT8

Dokes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLUGIpxSpS0\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiPfezi3O3o

Haye's handspeed is not anything special, he just gets lauded for it in this day and age when you have no-snap slowpokes like Arreola, Chisora, Fury, and Peter filling the HW ranks. He also is not a huge puncher at Heavyweight; Dokes wasn't either but his power was certainly on the same level as Haye.

Haye has better footspeed and survival skills, but I think Dokes was more durable and had way more heart. Neither is really noted for conditioning. I’d expect Dokes to take Haye deep, wear him down and stop him.

Dokes would probably get stopped late by Wlad, although if they fought 4 or 5 times, it’s possible that Dokes could land solid enough in one of the fights to get Wlad in trouble, and despite his lack of one punch power, Dokes was a good finisher.