BoxRec

... ? both were not the ducking type ...

Tito moved up to 154 and I don't think Oscar really wanted to fight him there... Probably purse issues too, Tito would've wanted a bigger cut after 'winning' the first fight and I doubt Oscar would want to give too much ground. Similar reasons to why big fights don't happen now. Two big egos, or more with management, wont give any ground and want to dictate terms and in the end it becomes easier to pick up an easier fight against an opponent who is happy to get a 6 figure pay day, let alone 7 figures.

I believe it was over split of purse.

You have to wonder how well it would drawn because the first fight was so boring. Would have been interesting to see if it would have been a more exciting fight the 2nd time around.

Oscar didn't move up to JMW until June 2001 when Tito was in the middle tournament. Tito left welter while Oscar was still there for three more fights. Also, don't forget the promoters--Arum and King. King was yammering on at the post-fight press conference to the point where Arum had his mic turned off.

hmm. you seem to know more than myself, but i
find it hard to believe money can be the issue. the
first was a big success financially, a rematch possibly
even bigger ...

DLH must have been furious to get it after feeling
robbed in the first.

They tried to make a rematch and DLH refused to negotiate in good faith. In short he didnt want a continuation of where the fight was going in the last few rounds of their first fight.

I guess I don't know what you mean by this. There is little reason to think that a rematch would be a continuation of the last few rounds.
The last three rounds he gave away on the brilliant advice of his corner; Trinidad didn't do much in those last rounds or for the entire fight for that matter.
Hard to imagine that De La hoya would fight the rematch like he did the last few rounds.
De la Hoya certainly could have fought a normal 12 rounds the 2nd time. There is really not much reason for De la Hoya not to want a rematch.

Ambling Alp wrote:I guess I don't know what you mean by this. There is little reason to think that a rematch would be a continuation of the last few rounds.
The last three rounds he gave away on the brilliant advice of his corner; Trinidad didn't do much in those last rounds or for the entire fight for that matter.
Hard to imagine that De La hoya would fight the rematch like he did the last few rounds.
De la Hoya certainly could have fought a normal 12 rounds the 2nd time. There is really not much reason for De la Hoya not to want a rematch.

DLH was also tired. He admitted he was tired. He had a tendency to fade in fights (Tito, Mosley I, Mosley II, Floyd). The only exceptions were against guys who also faded late (Ike and Vargas).

Ambling Alp wrote:I guess I don't know what you mean by this. There is little reason to think that a rematch would be a continuation of the last few rounds.
The last three rounds he gave away on the brilliant advice of his corner; Trinidad didn't do much in those last rounds or for the entire fight for that matter.
Hard to imagine that De La hoya would fight the rematch like he did the last few rounds.
De la Hoya certainly could have fought a normal 12 rounds the 2nd time. There is really not much reason for De la Hoya not to want a rematch.

De La Hoya admitted he faded. It also didnt help that after this fight De La Hoya never really improved (and his stamina was always an issue) while Trinidad continued to get better.

Rover wrote:DLH was also tired. He admitted he was tired. He had a tendency to fade in fights

ah common, he lost because he believed he had
it in the bank and ran. i thought this part of the
story was commonly agreed upon.

i thank you all for the replies, but i am not convinced.
one of the biggest fights until then, involving undefeated
super stars in the two most boxing-crazy countries in
the whole wide of the world ending in a very controversial
decision ... none of the reasons brought up here seems
convincing to me to prevent a rematch.

but maybe i missed a point.

man wrote:

Rover wrote:DLH was also tired. He admitted he was tired. He had a tendency to fade in fights

ah common, he lost because he believed he had
it in the bank and ran. i thought this part of the
story was commonly agreed upon.

i thank you all for the replies, but i am not convinced.
one of the biggest fights until then, involving undefeated
super stars in the two most boxing-crazy countries in
the whole wide of the world ending in a very controversial
decision ... none of the reasons brought up here seems
convincing to me to prevent a rematch.

but maybe i missed a point.

He admitted he was tired. If he hadn't been tired (just as fresh as the first round), there'd have been no reason for him to have changed strategy. He also faded in other fights; did he think he had them won, too?

man wrote:

Rover wrote:DLH was also tired. He admitted he was tired. He had a tendency to fade in fights

ah common, he lost because he believed he had
it in the bank and ran. i thought this part of the
story was commonly agreed upon.

i thank you all for the replies, but i am not convinced.
one of the biggest fights until then, involving undefeated
super stars in the two most boxing-crazy countries in
the whole wide of the world ending in a very controversial
decision ... none of the reasons brought up here seems
convincing to me to prevent a rematch.

but maybe i missed a point.

Its pretty well documented why it never came off. If you are going to ask us and then not believe us when we tell you why dont you just go buy some old magazines and read about it for yourself.

klompton wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:I guess I don't know what you mean by this. There is little reason to think that a rematch would be a continuation of the last few rounds.
The last three rounds he gave away on the brilliant advice of his corner; Trinidad didn't do much in those last rounds or for the entire fight for that matter.
Hard to imagine that De La hoya would fight the rematch like he did the last few rounds.
De la Hoya certainly could have fought a normal 12 rounds the 2nd time. There is really not much reason for De la Hoya not to want a rematch.

De La Hoya admitted he faded. It also didnt help that after this fight De La Hoya never really improved (and his stamina was always an issue) while Trinidad continued to get better.

I guess I never heard him say that he faded. He didn't look tired. I did hear his corner tell him to stay away because they thought had the fight won.

Trinidad continued to get bettter? I thought if anything he got worse. He was great against someone with no defense but seemed clueless against someone who could box.
Are you saying you think that De la Hoya didn't think he had a good chance to win a rematch?

klompton wrote:Its pretty well documented why it never came off. If you are going to ask us and then not believe us when we tell you why dont you just go buy some old magazines and read about it for yourself.

this is what you posted here on the subject:

"They tried to make a rematch and DLH refused to negotiate in good faith. In short he didnt want a continuation of where the fight was going in the last few rounds of their first fight."

"De La Hoya admitted he faded. It also didnt help that after this fight De La Hoya never really improved (and his stamina was always an issue) while Trinidad continued to get better."


sorry, i did not know this was "well documented".
otherwise i wouldn't have started the thread. but
given how furious oscar was about the decision
right after the fight, where he basically stated he
had given a boxing lesson, i still find it hard to
believe it didn't happen because he didn't want it.
the single loss in his life, where he said he schooled
the other guy and he did not avenge it because he
"faded" in the last three rounds? where it seemed
obvious he ran cause he thought he didn't have to
fight?

obviously there was a reason and it could well be
that yours is the right one. i still find it contradicting
to other evidence.

I always liked Trinidad's fights and almost always wanted him to win. But he was massively over hyped.

Rover wrote:Oscar didn't move up to JMW until June 2001 when Tito was in the middle tournament. Tito left welter while Oscar was still there for three more fights. Also, don't forget the promoters--Arum and King. King was yammering on at the post-fight press conference to the point where Arum had his mic turned off.

I don't remember that incident, but it must have been hilarious. I've got to find footage...

klompton wrote:

man wrote:

Rover wrote:DLH was also tired. He admitted he was tired. He had a tendency to fade in fights

ah common, he lost because he believed he had
it in the bank and ran. i thought this part of the
story was commonly agreed upon.

i thank you all for the replies, but i am not convinced.
one of the biggest fights until then, involving undefeated
super stars in the two most boxing-crazy countries in
the whole wide of the world ending in a very controversial
decision ... none of the reasons brought up here seems
convincing to me to prevent a rematch.

but maybe i missed a point.

Its pretty well documented why it never came off. If you are going to ask us and then not believe us when we tell you why dont you just go buy some old magazines and read about it for yourself.

Klompton, love you like a brother from another mother so no disrespect meant. But much of the "documentation" I read was that DLH hounded Felix to attend another dance. Are we talking two different points in time? I read that DLH did a command performance plea in P.R. attempting to get Tito's attention on this subject. Was that just press bought by DLH to cover up the reality? I think I read some of what you allude to, but at the time I thought it was perhaps King attempting to muddy the waters. Why are you buying one story over the other so completely?

I'm asking with a totally open mind on this subject.