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i think Vinnie takes him. He has faster hands and workrate and chin than Hatton who bothered Alvarez and made him look one dimensional to an extent.Alvarez would have been just a lower level top ten guy in the 80s imo

Alvarez by decision for me. He'd have gotten smoked by Hearns, McCallum, Jackson, Norris, and Tito, though.

What has Alverez done that brings you to this conclusion?. He has fought absolutely noone except blown up Welter and lightwelterweights and a totally shot Shane Mosely.

fatcity69 wrote:What has Alverez done that brings you to this conclusion?. He has fought absolutely noone except blown up Welter and lightwelterweights and a totally shot Shane Mosely.

And Pazienza's a blown-up lightweight, jr. welter, etc.
I'd pick Canelo over Haugen and Garza and Mayweather (Roger, that is), too.

Alvarez beats Vinnie easily... Paz was a lightweight as has been said. Alvarez is a big Jr Middle...at the very least.

Rover wrote:

fatcity69 wrote:What has Alverez done that brings you to this conclusion?. He has fought absolutely noone except blown up Welter and lightwelterweights and a totally shot Shane Mosely.

And Pazienza's a blown-up lightweight, jr. welter, etc.
I'd pick Canelo over Haugen and Garza and Mayweather (Roger, that is), too.

I know Canelo likes fighting Lightwelters but Haugen and Mayweather never fought at 154 so its rather nonsensical to say whether they would have beaten Canelo. Vinnie on the other hand fought all the way up to 168 pounds and picked up a genuine 154 title on the way... winning it from a genuine world class 154 pounder Gilbert Dele not a journeyman welterweight who is barely Europeon class at welterweight. To say Canelo has been spoonfed would be Flattery, he has more or less been drip fed a line of welterweights and lightwelterweights with a couple of shot 'names' thrown in for good measure.

Ezzard wrote:Alvarez beats Vinnie easily... Paz was a lightweight as has been said. Alvarez is a big Jr Middle...at the very least.

So you are totally discounting Vinnies career at 154 to 168???. Granted he was a 'natural' lightweight, but he still went on to do more at 154 and above than Alvarez has done in his career so far. Alvarez is yet to face a 'live' opponent.

fatcity69 wrote:

Rover wrote:

fatcity69 wrote:What has Alverez done that brings you to this conclusion?. He has fought absolutely noone except blown up Welter and lightwelterweights and a totally shot Shane Mosely.

And Pazienza's a blown-up lightweight, jr. welter, etc.
I'd pick Canelo over Haugen and Garza and Mayweather (Roger, that is), too.

I know Canelo likes fighting Lightwelters but Haugen and Mayweather never fought at 154 so its rather nonsensical to say whether they would have beaten Canelo. Vinnie on the other hand fought all the way up to 168 pounds and picked up a genuine 154 title on the way... winning it from a genuine world class 154 pounder Gilbert Dele not a journeyman welterweight who is barely Europeon class at welterweight. To say Canelo has been spoonfed would be Flattery, he has more or less been drip fed a line of welterweights and lightwelterweights with a couple of shot 'names' thrown in for good measure.

Dele won a vacant belt when Jackson left 154 (or did he beat "champ" Eliot?). That's like saying that Jimi Bredahl was a legit champ in the era of Molina, Hernandez and Nelson/Leija.
Don't think that much of Dele, obviously. Pazienza's having beaten him says more to me about Dele's weakness, considering that Pazienza was widely beaten by fighters at far lower weights (Camacho, Mayweather, Garza, Haugen) who either never competed (or who never succeeded much in Camacho's case) at jr. middle.
I understand that Mayweather, Garza and Haugen never fought at jr. middle; my point is that I don't think much of Pazienza's "title" there.

Paz beat a well past-prime Duran at 168 (a division where Roberto'd never accomplished anything), and he got massacred by Jones in his only meaningful fight there. He also got dominated by former welterweight beltholder Aaron Davis and split two fights with Rosenbladt, whose career wound up amounting to little.

fatcity69 wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Alvarez beats Vinnie easily... Paz was a lightweight as has been said. Alvarez is a big Jr Middle...at the very least.

So you are totally discounting Vinnies career at 154 to 168???. Granted he was a 'natural' lightweight, but he still went on to do more at 154 and above than Alvarez has done in his career so far. Alvarez is yet to face a 'live' opponent.

The version of Mosley Alvarez fought had had two losses--to Floyd and Manny. I don't think much of Dele, the only arguably quality win of Pazienza's at jr. middle or higher. Look at some of the other fighters who defeated Duran before Pazienza got to him. Duran's last hurrah was over five years before Pazienza fought him the first time (and a division lower).