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I just believe That if you have a prospect, You should match him in with quality opposition, all the way to a title shot! Fernando Vargas won title in his 14th fight at a young age! so how do people make this excuse for Tyson fury building a career, by fighting 6 ft 3 barry the brawlers will be helping him on his way to facing the like's of a klitschko? He could take a page from kubrat puluv 17 fights and already in the mix for a title shot by fighting guys like alexander dimitrenko, and ustinov big men would surly be more beneficial and place him highler in the ratings Just my opinion though.

Your point is 100% valid but here is the issue. The Klitschkos have dominated and beat most of the names in it convincingly. Fury talks alot of trash talk & nonsense and wins fights against bad opponents. He is known in the UK and has a winning record (which is pretty padded). Its enough to warrant a shot at the Klitschko's because they need fresh opponents to fight.

If Fury doesn't hold a win against a decent fighter. Does he stand a chance against a Klitschko ? NO.

brian13 wrote:Your point is 100% valid but here is the issue. The Klitschkos have dominated and beat most of the names in it convincingly. Fury talks alot of trash talk & nonsense and wins fights against bad opponents. He is known in the UK and has a winning record (which is pretty padded). Its enough to warrant a shot at the Klitschko's because they need fresh opponents to fight.

If Fury doesn't hold a win against a decent fighter. Does he stand a chance against a Klitschko ? NO.

It would just would be good to see him against guys like Tomasz Adamek or any of the top 10 heavy! To see if you he actually is world level! Because so far He hasn't shown that he is any better then European... Then again I suppose you only have to be European level to get a title shot.. I'ts a joke really..

When they finally step him up (yes, I know he fought a fat chisora already), it will be against a fighter with decent skill but who tops out about 6' 1" at best. That's why the decent names that have been mentioned include Chambers, Adamek and Chagaev. They all have one thing in common.... decent name, but lacking in size. Dude fights on channel 5, runs his mouth and attracts alot of attention but can't fight for shit. I really wouldn't mind if he just got on with his business and learnt his trade, but he has clearly stalled since the Chisora fight and for some reason they have no intention of moving him on until they find the perfect fighter to make him appear like he's better than he is. He needs to either step up the competition or quit talking, either one is fine by me.

Because people back in the day used to fight for a title in less fights? I don't go along with that.

Every fighter is different and someone like Fury has a lot to work on, why rush him into a career effecting loss? The guy is still working on getting in shape, he clearly isn't ready for the step up and from what I can see none of the people on here who want him to step up think he is ready either. Do we need KG to tell us all about promotors actually looking to make a profit in the long term?

My main issue with modern day prospects is how little they fight. If you've had less then 10 fights does every one of them have to be televised live? I like it when prospects try and get themselves on other shows to gain experience, go abroad. When you look at the amount of so called prospects fighting twice a year, waiting for the next big show from their promotor and hoping to get on the bill, being forgotten about, it has to be taking it's toll.

Vargas was in some way ruined by early tough fights, someone like David Reid was totally ruined by them. Nothing wrong with taking learning fights, they just don't need to top televised shows all the time.

I think Tyson is happy enough using big names to keep his name in the headlines. He is one of the few fighters who could make it interesting against Wlad but that just shows the weakness of the division at the moment. He and Hennessy have been using David Haye's name in the press this week, yet another fight that we know will never happen, but it wets our appetite a little before they announce Rogan II or Maddalone II

I agree with Lenny...

But I'll add. Back in the day a defeat or two on the way up was normal. These days aone defeat and you're treated like a leper.

wiseman2007 wrote:I just believe That if you have a prospect, You should match him in with quality opposition, all the way to a title shot! Fernando Vargas won title in his 14th fight at a young age! so how do people make this excuse for Tyson fury building a career, by fighting 6 ft 3 barry the brawlers will be helping him on his way to facing the like's of a klitschko? He could take a page from kubrat puluv 17 fights and already in the mix for a title shot by fighting guys like alexander dimitrenko, and ustinov big men would surly be more beneficial and place him highler in the ratings Just my opinion though.

If you're old fashioned - then 1940's-1990's prospects were brought along slowly - unless your name was Pete Rademacher.

Almost every prospect was brought along slowly before they got their shot....

Patterson 31 fights.
Frazier 24 fights.
Foreman 37 fights.
Holmes 27 fights.
Tyson 27 fights.
Bowe 31 fights.

Some Olympic champions got their shot faster, but Fury is very much still a relative novice.

You are old fashioned, but there is no shame in that, Grandma.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

wiseman2007 wrote:I just believe That if you have a prospect, You should match him in with quality opposition, all the way to a title shot! Fernando Vargas won title in his 14th fight at a young age! so how do people make this excuse for Tyson fury building a career, by fighting 6 ft 3 barry the brawlers will be helping him on his way to facing the like's of a klitschko? He could take a page from kubrat puluv 17 fights and already in the mix for a title shot by fighting guys like alexander dimitrenko, and ustinov big men would surly be more beneficial and place him highler in the ratings Just my opinion though.

If you're old fashioned - then 1940's-1990's prospects were brought along slowly - unless your name was Pete Rademacher.

Almost every prospect was brought along slowly before they got their shot....

Patterson 31 fights.
Frazier 24 fights.
Foreman 37 fights.
Holmes 27 fights.
Tyson 27 fights.
Bowe 31 fights.

Some Olympic champions got their shot faster, but Fury is very much still a relative novice.

Surely that was more to do with the fact that there was only 1 belt, or 2, in the earlier days? Therefore you'd have to wait longer to get a shot at the belt as they were fewer. I could be wrong

Bit harsh to compare Pulev to Fury. Not only is Pulev much older but he was also a very, very highly regarded amateur and has the fundamentals to be rushed slightly, however it was just 3 fights ago that Pulev was fighting Michael Sprott...

If you're a so-called 'prospect' and yet activity is a problem for you and you fight twice a year, getting in shape after 5 years as a professional athlete is still an arduous uphill task, you get wobbled and knocked down by non-hitters and everyone around you seems to think it best to protect you from anyone with a pulse, then frankly you're not going to become a world heavyweight champion. Even in this diabolical era.

keithmoonhangover wrote: Almost every prospect was brought along slowly before they got their shot....

Patterson 31 fights.
Frazier 24 fights.
Foreman 37 fights.
Holmes 27 fights.
Tyson 27 fights.
Bowe 31 fights.

Some Olympic champions got their shot faster, but Fury is very much still a relative novice.

Tyson was fighting Berbick at the end of his second year as a pro. Bowe, Foreman and Frazier were all fighting for the title after three years as a pro. All of them were busy and acting, constantly mowing down a higher calibre of men than what Fury has faced.

There is no comparison. If anything, listing those names only shows how bad Tyson Fury is, and how artificial his record is.

Isn't Tyson Fury like 23 yrs old? It would be totally illogical to rush a good heavyweight at such a early age in my humble opinon

loaded_gloves wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Almost every prospect was brought along slowly before they got their shot....

Patterson 31 fights.
Frazier 24 fights.
Foreman 37 fights.
Holmes 27 fights.
Tyson 27 fights.
Bowe 31 fights.

Some Olympic champions got their shot faster, but Fury is very much still a relative novice.

Tyson was fighting Berbick at the end of his second year as a pro. Bowe, Foreman and Frazier were all fighting for the title after three years as a pro. All of them were busy and acting, constantly mowing down a higher calibre of men than what Fury has faced.

There is no comparison. If anything, listing those names only shows how bad Tyson Fury is, and how artificial his record is.

Foreman and Fraizer were Olympic gold medal winners, Bowe was an Olympic Silver medal winner. Please do remind me how Fury did as an amateur...

Furys doing fine. He beat Chisora in case some people forget and that was before Chisora gave Vitali a test.

But I agree its time for Tyson to put some name foes together. Id like to see him beat a big name bum like Hasim Rahman (harsh i know but thats what he is right now in 2012)...he would box teh ears off Adamek and that win would really put him in the top 5.

scallum wrote:Isn't Tyson Fury like 23 yrs old? It would be totally illogical to rush a good heavyweight at such a early age in my humble opinon

I agree in Heavyweight terms he is still a baby and is still developing because he only had I think 34 amateur fight before turning professioanl in 2008 making his debut on Carl Froch-Jean Pascal so in comparison what some people are saying he has been more active than David Price who has only had 13 to date before turning professional and Fury has improved alot since been trained by his uncle Peter he is picking his shots more his conditioning is improved considerably I hope that within the next 18 months Hennessy puts him in with a top 10 ranked guy or two to see if he is World level or not.

wiseman2007 wrote:how do people make this excuse for Tyson fury building a career, by fighting 6 ft 3 barry the brawlers will be helping him on his way to facing the like's of a klitschko?

and then

wiseman2007 wrote:It would just would be good to see him against guys like Tomasz Adamek

Brilliant logic. Complain Fury isn't fighting Klitschko-like opposition and then suggest he fight another brawler who's even smaller than the height you cited in your criticism

A lot of smoke and mirrors from you, Oliver. You're well aware that there is no comparison between a Nikolai Firtha and a Tomasz Adamek. Adamek has a lot of tricks and skills and it takes a good man to beat him. Firtha... well, he was just another huge fat guy and cannon fodder for Tye Fields types. I guess I will have to accept I just don't understand people like you. Fury has shown nothing, but so many round here seem to be in denial, for reasons I cannot fathom.

It's all well and good those who say he's only young, he doesn't have much amateur experience. What experience is he picking up fighting once or twice a year against hand picked stiffs?

loaded_gloves wrote:A lot of smoke and mirrors from you, Oliver. You're well aware that there is no comparison between a Nikolai Firtha and a Tomasz Adamek. Adamek has a lot of tricks and skills and it takes a good man to beat him. Firtha... well, he was just another huge fat guy and cannon fodder for Tye Fields types. I guess I will have to accept I just don't understand people like you. Fury has shown nothing, but so many round here seem to be in denial, for reasons I cannot fathom.

It's all well and good those who say he's only young, he doesn't have much amateur experience. What experience is he picking up fighting once or twice a year against hand picked stiffs?

I agree this year he has stalled somewhat but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because prior to this year he was progressing at a decent pace. As for the opposition level, the only one I couldn't condone so far was Rogan. All others have been comparable or superior to the majority of young heavyweight prospects. Certainly better than David Price. I think Price is the better talent, but his opposition has been inferior to Fury's.

oliverfennell wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:A lot of smoke and mirrors from you, Oliver. You're well aware that there is no comparison between a Nikolai Firtha and a Tomasz Adamek. Adamek has a lot of tricks and skills and it takes a good man to beat him. Firtha... well, he was just another huge fat guy and cannon fodder for Tye Fields types. I guess I will have to accept I just don't understand people like you. Fury has shown nothing, but so many round here seem to be in denial, for reasons I cannot fathom.

It's all well and good those who say he's only young, he doesn't have much amateur experience. What experience is he picking up fighting once or twice a year against hand picked stiffs?

I agree this year he has stalled somewhat but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because prior to this year he was progressing at a decent pace. As for the opposition level, the only one I couldn't condone so far was Rogan. All others have been comparable or superior to the majority of young heavyweight prospects. Certainly better than David Price. I think Price is the better talent, but his opposition has been inferior to Fury's.

I think what puzzles me most about the crop of 'prospects' and their managers, and particularly Tyson and Hennessy, is why the long hold up? If you genuinely feel you have a dynamic heavyweight in his 20s with power, skill and all the gifts of youth, what on earth is there to fear of the Klitschko brothers?

One guy is 37, has been down 15 times and employs an extremely predictable, one dimensional jab jab and right hand style that must be incredibly easy to strategise against. Even in his prime when dragged into fights he couldn't take the heat. In fact the pace and aggression of Lamon Brewster was so overwhelming that he actually fell apart and ended up quivering on his hands and knees gasping for air. Is this man really to fear for a big strong talented heavy in his 20s?

The other guy is 41, and the last time he was dragged into a fight, against a fat and near 40 year old Lennox Lewis, he struggled with the pace and was exhausted after 6 rounds. How well is he going to cope with a pace against a guy in his 20s who can hit now he's 41? Is he going to be any better than he was in 2003?

The guy who bumps off the Klit goons can write his own cheque. If you had a strong willing young heavy wouldn't you be doing it the old fashioned way, having him fight every other month against a range of styles and shapes, keeping him fit and active and in the public eye, and wanting to get him ready for these two as soon as humanly possible, like they did with Tyson?

Lenny wrote:Because people back in the day used to fight for a title in less fights? I don't go along with that.

Every fighter is different and someone like Fury has a lot to work on, why rush him into a career effecting loss? The guy is still working on getting in shape, he clearly isn't ready for the step up and from what I can see none of the people on here who want him to step up think he is ready either. Do we need KG to tell us all about promotors actually looking to make a profit in the long term?

Yeah, promoters should do that.

Anything else?

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

Lenny wrote:Because people back in the day used to fight for a title in less fights? I don't go along with that.

Every fighter is different and someone like Fury has a lot to work on, why rush him into a career effecting loss? The guy is still working on getting in shape, he clearly isn't ready for the step up and from what I can see none of the people on here who want him to step up think he is ready either. Do we need KG to tell us all about promotors actually looking to make a profit in the long term?

Yeah, promoters should do that.

Anything else?

Well... you could say something about typical boxrec and call for the return of spud. I feel underwhelmed

Lenny wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

Lenny wrote:Because people back in the day used to fight for a title in less fights? I don't go along with that.

Every fighter is different and someone like Fury has a lot to work on, why rush him into a career effecting loss? The guy is still working on getting in shape, he clearly isn't ready for the step up and from what I can see none of the people on here who want him to step up think he is ready either. Do we need KG to tell us all about promotors actually looking to make a profit in the long term?

Yeah, promoters should do that.

Anything else?

Well... you could say something about typical boxrec and call for the return of spud. I feel underwhelmed

I do wish Spud would return. "We are poorer for having known him"