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British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 02 Nov 2012, 19:00
by Horse
1. (1.) Carl Froch
2. (2.) Ricky Burns
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (4.) Amir Khan
5. (5.) Nathan Cleverly
6. (6.) Ola Afolabi
7. (7.) Kell Brook
8. (8.) Matthew Macklin
9. (9.) Brian Magee (Irish)
10. (10.) Jamie McDonnell
11. (11.) George Groves
12. (12.) Gavin Rees
13. (13.) Tyson Fury
14. (14.) Tony Bellew
15. (22.) James DeGale
16. (15.) Carl Frampton
17. (25.) David Price
18. (16.) Andy Lee (Irish)
19. (17.) Rendall Munroe
20. (18.) Darren Barker
21. (19.) Martin Murray
22. (20.) Lee Selby
23. (21.) Lee Haskins
24. (23.) Kevin Mitchell
25. (NE.) Kevin Satchell
26. (24.) Dereck Chisora
27. (26.) Paul McCloskey (Irish)
28. (30.) Matthew Hatton
29. (28.) Gary Buckland
30. (29.) Kerry Hope
Out - (27.) Derry Mathews
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 02 Nov 2012, 19:00
by Horse
Any comments or criticisms of the British Top 30 P4P list are very welcome.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 03 Nov 2012, 03:37
by jessi
Frankie Gavin just beat a former world champion in his 14th fight to claim the British title, it has to put him at least above Kerry hope and Kevin satchel ?
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 03 Nov 2012, 04:14
by mickey1975
Why is it late? Your slacking, Horse...
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 03 Nov 2012, 09:47
by Horse
jessi wrote:Frankie Gavin just beat a former world champion in his 14th fight to claim the British title, it has to put him at least above Kerry hope and Kevin satchel ?
Gavin fought this month, so he will enter in December's rankings.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 03 Nov 2012, 09:54
by jessi
Horse wrote:jessi wrote:Frankie Gavin just beat a former world champion in his 14th fight to claim the British title, it has to put him at least above Kerry hope and Kevin satchel ?
Gavin fought this month, so he will enter in December's rankings.
Sorry thought you put it together yesterday !
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 13:31
by Horse
mickey1975 wrote:Why is it late? Your slacking, Horse...
I was away for a few days, sorry.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 13:35
by thunderfromdownunder
Pretty solid top ten you guys got there
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 14:32
by brian13
Wouldn't have Cleverly that high. Think his past opposition hasn't been good enough. I would have Brook and / or Afolabi above him.
There is a mild case for Rees above Groves. I think Rees is very nearly touching the top 10 but there is also a solid argument against my view.
DeGale is too high. Frampton and Price are should be ahead of him.
21-30 once again solid. Minor complaint, I would have Hatton above Mc Closkey though considering Mc Closkey lost to Corley, where Hatton's last two defeats were Canelo and Brook.
Question, with Ricky coming back and should he win. What position will he get ?
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 14:51
by whiskey
Personally horse, its a solid enough list - I would not have McCloskey in there at all though.
If you are, you need to put John Murray in because at least he lost toe to toe against Brandon Rios and not crap crap Corley. I had Prescott beating him too.
Khan is high too. Ashley Theophane arguably beat Garcia and is nowhere on the list. Chisora lost to Klitschko & Haye and beat Helenious - whereas khan lost to lowly Peterson. Yet Derek is 24th and lost to legit belt holders not challengers.
I think past honours make it slightly skewed.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 15:59
by Horse
thunderfromdownunder wrote:Pretty solid top ten you guys got there
It's pretty good. It was better a few years ago though.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 17:43
by davie
Horse wrote:
16. (15.) Carl Frampton
19. (17.) Rendall Munroe
No quigg in the top 30??
I wouldn't have him above either but he wouldn't be far behind
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 04 Nov 2012, 19:04
by milpool
How come Frampton's dropped a spot?
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 05:22
by mfc_se15
milpool wrote:How come Frampton's dropped a spot?
Looking at the list its because Degale moved into his (Framptons) old spot and thus everyone below moved down a position.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 06:16
by earsjohn
No Liam Walsh? He's a soon-to-be world title challenger. How can he earn a title shot but not be worthy of Horse's Top 30?!
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 06:18
by Gazmac81
Ricky Hatton will be gatecrashing that list soon enough
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 06:29
by milpool
mfc_se15 wrote:milpool wrote:How come Frampton's dropped a spot?
Looking at the list its because Degale moved into his (Framptons) old spot and thus everyone below moved down a position.
Yeah that's what it looks like but I would have thought Frampton's win over Molitor is worthy of a higher spot than DeGale?
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 07:12
by mfc_se15
milpool wrote:mfc_se15 wrote:milpool wrote:How come Frampton's dropped a spot?
Looking at the list its because Degale moved into his (Framptons) old spot and thus everyone below moved down a position.
Yeah that's what it looks like but I would have thought Frampton's win over Molitor is worthy of a higher spot than DeGale?
True, and I would agree.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 11:44
by Horse
brian13 wrote:Wouldn't have Cleverly that high. Think his past opposition hasn't been good enough. I would have Brook and / or Afolabi above him.
What has happened with Cleverly recently has been very disappointing. His scheduled opponent next week is Shawn Hawk, who looks like a very weak opponent to be fighting for a world title.
If Afolabi or Brook beat their next opponents then they are very likely to overtake Cleverly.
brian13 wrote:There is a mild case for Rees above Groves. I think Rees is very nearly touching the top 10 but there is also a solid argument against my view.
I don't think Rees's recent opposition has been as good as a lot of people suggest. In the last two years Rees has beaten: Watson, A. Murray, Mezaache and Mathews. Even if Mezaache was British, only Mathews would qualify as a top 5 domestic fighter when Rees beat them.
Groves has a win against DeGale who went on to become European champion in his next fight. Smith was a top 5 domestic fighter and Anderson went on to become British champion after their fight.
I think Groves has the better record over the last couple of years. They both have very good opponents in December, whoever performs the best out of the two of them will probably be higher in January's list.
brian13 wrote:DeGale is too high. Frampton and Price are should be ahead of him.
I think DeGale's record is better than Frampton and Price's. DeGale's fight against Groves was very close and could have gone either way and if you add that to wins against Dilks, Smith, Wilczewski, Sanavia & Mohoumadi then it is a solid record.
Frampton has that good win against Molitor, but beyond that his record is fairly bare. His best domestic opponent is Hughes and Frampton seemed to avoid harder clashes against Booth and Arthur.
Price will probably move ahead of DeGale if he beats Skelton this month.
brian13 wrote:21-30 once again solid. Minor complaint, I would have Hatton above Mc Closkey though considering Mc Closkey lost to Corley, where Hatton's last two defeats were Canelo and Brook.
McCloskey's opponent in September was better than Hatton's opponent last month, so that is the main reason McCloskey is slightly higher in the rankings. Also, McCloskey beat Prescott just over a year ago, which is arguably better than any single win that Hatton has.
brian13 wrote:Question, with Ricky coming back and should he win. What position will he get ?
I will have to think about that one, it will largely depend on how good he looks winning. He will probably be somewhere in the top 15.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 13:13
by Horse
G0mez wrote:Personally horse, its a solid enough list - I would not have McCloskey in there at all though.
If you are, you need to put John Murray in because at least he lost toe to toe against Brandon Rios and not crap crap Corley. I had Prescott beating him too.
I scored the Prescott fight in McCloskey's favour and the stoppage against Corley was too quick.
Murray has lost his last two fights and has been inactive for 11 months. Most fighters who lose two in a row and don't fight for 11 months will fall out of the rankings. If Murray beats Rees in December then he will return to the rankings with quite a high place.
G0mez wrote:Khan is high too. Ashley Theophane arguably beat Garcia and is nowhere on the list. Chisora lost to Klitschko & Haye and beat Helenious - whereas khan lost to lowly Peterson. Yet Derek is 24th and lost to legit belt holders not challengers.
I think past honours make it slightly skewed.
Theophane recently lost to Hamilton and he was losing against Murphy before the stoppage in the fight before that.
I thought Khan deserved to win the Peterson fight. Khan has a good record with a number of wins aganst world class opponents. There was no way I was going to drop him below Cleverly.
Losing to good fighters is fine, but Chisora should be looking to win a fight every now and again.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 13:25
by stujones
Ricky Hatton somewhere in the top 15 if he wins?
Harsh..... Schevchenko is as good as any wins for most in the top 10.
Infact I would say nobody from below Amir Khan has beaten a fighter who was a world champion within a year of their fight.
5. (5.) Nathan Cleverly
6. (6.) Ola Afolabi
7. (7.) Kell Brook
8. (8.) Matthew Macklin
9. (9.) Brian Magee (Irish)
10. (10.) Jamie McDonnell
Nope nobody.
I think if Hatton gets the decision, even if it isn't vintage Hatton - but as long as its a geniune victory... then he should be in the top 10 minimum.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 14:17
by Horse
davie wrote:Horse wrote:16. (15.) Carl Frampton
19. (17.) Rendall Munroe
No quigg in the top 30??
I wouldn't have him above either but he wouldn't be far behind
His last fight was a 3 round technical draw, so I didn't count that as a proper fight. His last fight before that was 8 months ago against Arthur and he wasn't very impressive in that fight.
Quigg's record isn't currently good enough for him to stay in the rankings whilst going 8 months without picking up a decent win.
If Quigg betas Munroe this month then he will enter quite highly next month.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 14:22
by Horse
milpool wrote:mfc_se15 wrote:milpool wrote:How come Frampton's dropped a spot?
Looking at the list its because Degale moved into his (Framptons) old spot and thus everyone below moved down a position.
Yeah that's what it looks like but I would have thought Frampton's win over Molitor is worthy of a higher spot than DeGale?
mfc_se15 is correct.
Although the Molitor win was good, Frampton's record is more shallow than DeGale's. I felt DeGale deserved to overtake Frampton after picking up another decent win.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 15:03
by mickey1975
stujones wrote:Ricky Hatton somewhere in the top 15 if he wins?
Harsh..... Schevchenko is as good as any wins for most in the top 10.
Infact I would say nobody from below Amir Khan has beaten a fighter who was a world champion within a year of their fight.
X2. It would put Ricky right up there in my opinion. Combining it with past achievements definately top five. Who has Haye beat in the past couple of years who is better than Senchenko? Harrison, Chisora?
5. (5.) Nathan Cleverly
6. (6.) Ola Afolabi
7. (7.) Kell Brook
8. (8.) Matthew Macklin
9. (9.) Brian Magee (Irish)
10. (10.) Jamie McDonnell
Nope nobody.
I think if Hatton gets the decision, even if it isn't vintage Hatton - but as long as its a geniune victory... then he should be in the top 10 minimum.
Re: British Top 30 P4P November 2012
Posted: 05 Nov 2012, 15:10
by Horse
earsjohn wrote:No Liam Walsh? He's a soon-to-be world title challenger. How can he earn a title shot but not be worthy of Horse's Top 30?!
Because he is a weak challenger for a world title. He is better than Shawn Hawk though.