BoxRec

Barry McGuigan was always a favourite of mine but I do wonder if he retired too young (not long turned 29). He went out after being stopped on a cut against McDonnell in a fight that was quite tight upto being stopped, so its not like he was knocked out, a bad cut could happen to anyone. Any else think he should have given it another crack?

His other defeat to Cruz was quite unlucky, he was winning the fight right until the last round when those knockdowns tipped the scores the other way, the extreme heat was the issue, not Cruz in my opinion.

He had a lot of problems - His father died, he suffered from a bout of bad depression and he had a long running legal battle with his manager/promoter. I think he said after the last loss that his heart really wasn't in it any more and he just knew it was time to step away.

I had Cruz up 2 entering the 15th, and I could see it even. Glad Cruz got those KD's; he shouldn't have needed them.
I think McGuigan was right to retire if his heart wasn't in it.

If that fight would have been in the King's Hall, I doubt Cruz would have been out for the 10th round.

He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

barry has said that winning the world title was much easier than keeping it and that when he became king he was never as fiery as in those contender days. that said, his win over bernard taylor was fairly hot. i reckon his retirement had something to do with nelson, who he would never have beaten and who the fans wanted him to fight! too early? look at his career since quitting...he timed it right

there was no doubt that he was suffering due to the heat - his conversations to his corner between rounds shows that. cruz was better prepped for the heat/humidity

misterpunch wrote:there was no doubt that he was suffering due to the heat - his conversations to his corner between rounds shows that. cruz was better prepped for the heat/humidity

How was Cruz better prepared?

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

Cruz paced the fight much better than Barry. Barry was being sent out to steamroll Cruz fighting all 3 minutes of each round. Cruz fought in spurts and had more left in the later rounds. Stevie timed it to perfection. If the fight had been anywhere else I have no doubt that Barry would have won convincingly.

Personally I think Barry should have moved up to Super Feather before the Cruz fight as there was big fights to be had there and he would have been stronger for it.

Nelson would have been too much for him if they had fought.

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

Ketchel wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

Cruz paced the fight much better than Barry. Barry was being sent out to steamroll Cruz fighting all 3 minutes of each round. Cruz fought in spurts and had more left in the later rounds. Stevie timed it to perfection. If the fight had been anywhere else I have no doubt that Barry would have won convincingly.

Personally I think Barry should have moved up to Super Feather before the Cruz fight as there was big fights to be had there and he would have been stronger for it.

Nelson would have been too much for him if they had fought.

Nelson, Fenech and Esparragosa would all have been too much for Barry

He retired at the right time I'd say. Nobody wanted to see him consistently losing to inferior fighters

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

McGuigan is a pasty faced Irish man who had fought all but one fight in Northern Ireland or the UK, places where heat is a rare luxury. Cruz fought most of his fights in Nevada, Las Vegas and Texas, places that get very hot, especially in June when they fought. Cruz was far better suited to extreme heat than McGuigan. McGuigan fought at a fast pace and was drained by the 15th round, which is why he was rushed to hospital after the fight. I have no doubt that had McGuigan fought in the UK he would have stopped Cruz, and he would have won in the USA had he fought smarter.

Controversial wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

McGuigan is a pasty faced Irish man who had fought all but one fight in Northern Ireland or the UK, places where heat is a rare luxury. Cruz fought most of his fights in Nevada, Las Vegas and Texas, places that get very hot, especially in June when they fought. Cruz was far better suited to extreme heat than McGuigan. McGuigan fought at a fast pace and was drained by the 15th round, which is why he was rushed to hospital after the fight. I have no doubt that had McGuigan fought in the UK he would have stopped Cruz, and he would have won in the USA had he fought smarter.

Shows how inferior McGuigan really is:
He needed to fight in his homeland to beat a Steve Cruz--or he needed to fight "smarter" away from his homeland.
BTW, it was "hot as hell" (according to Chris Shenkel) when McGuigan beat Taylor, who couldn't continue due to the heat. McGuigan showed no difficulties that day.

Rover wrote:
Shows how inferior McGuigan really is:
He needed to fight in his homeland to beat a Steve Cruz--or he needed to fight "smarter" away from his homeland.
BTW, it was "hot as hell" (according to Chris Shenkel) when McGuigan beat Taylor, who couldn't continue due to the heat. McGuigan showed no difficulties that day.

Inferior to who? He fought the wrong fight considering the conditions, his and his teams mistake but the conditions were a major factor in the loss, he was totally drained by the 15th round.

For what its worth he fought Taylor in Belfast at night, where it is rarely "hot as hell" especially at the end of September. Lets be realistic the conditions were nowhere close to the 6pm June temperatures of Nevada when the sun was still up and at its peak hit 125 degrees.

Controversial wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

McGuigan is a pasty faced Irish man who had fought all but one fight in Northern Ireland or the UK, places where heat is a rare luxury. Cruz fought most of his fights in Nevada, Las Vegas and Texas, places that get very hot, especially in June when they fought. Cruz was far better suited to extreme heat than McGuigan. McGuigan fought at a fast pace and was drained by the 15th round, which is why he was rushed to hospital after the fight. I have no doubt that had McGuigan fought in the UK he would have stopped Cruz, and he would have won in the USA had he fought smarter.

I wonder how many fights Cruz had outdoors in the summer in Nevada before the McGuigan? I wonder if all of the fights of Cruz before McGuigan were in air conditioned arenas? I wonder what prevented McGuigan from training in Nevada and getting acclimated to the heat?

mercman wrote:

Ketchel wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

Cruz paced the fight much better than Barry. Barry was being sent out to steamroll Cruz fighting all 3 minutes of each round. Cruz fought in spurts and had more left in the later rounds. Stevie timed it to perfection. If the fight had been anywhere else I have no doubt that Barry would have won convincingly.

Personally I think Barry should have moved up to Super Feather before the Cruz fight as there was big fights to be had there and he would have been stronger for it.

Nelson would have been too much for him if they had fought.

Plus, there is the more prosaic fact that, as a Mexican used to living, training and fighting in such conditions, Cruz was simply more used to the sweltering heat than McGuigan.

Cruz is an American from Ft. Worth, Texas.

Barry is living a good life time with his health & wealth intact.

He isn't slurring his words & making bizarre pronouncements; in short, a fighter with his style retired at exactly the right time.

Sven Tingstrom wrote:
I wonder how many fights Cruz had outdoors in the summer in Nevada before the McGuigan? I wonder if all of the fights of Cruz before McGuigan were in air conditioned arenas? I wonder what prevented McGuigan from training in Nevada and getting acclimated to the heat?

Who knows but Cruz was more acclimatised to extremes of heat than McGuigan was and trained in those conditions. No one is saying McGuigan fought the right fight or prepared correctly. The point is McGuigan was winning upto the last round and his high tempo work rate was his downfall in those conditions. The heat was the factor in him losing not that Cruz was the superior fighter.

Controversial wrote:

Rover wrote:
Shows how inferior McGuigan really is:
He needed to fight in his homeland to beat a Steve Cruz--or he needed to fight "smarter" away from his homeland.
BTW, it was "hot as hell" (according to Chris Shenkel) when McGuigan beat Taylor, who couldn't continue due to the heat. McGuigan showed no difficulties that day.

Inferior to who? He fought the wrong fight considering the conditions, his and his teams mistake but the conditions were a major factor in the loss, he was totally drained by the 15th round.

For what its worth he fought Taylor in Belfast at night, where it is rarely "hot as hell" especially at the end of September. Lets be realistic the conditions were nowhere close to the 6pm June temperatures of Nevada when the sun was still up and at its peak hit 125 degrees.

I'll take Chris Shenkel's word for what the conditions were; Taylor, a Charlotte native, couldn't go on because of the heat.
As for McGuigan, if you have to go to "he'd have won in the UK," that indicates inferiority to me. Cruz had to deal with the same heat. And Cruz had never gone 15 rounds, either; he was a late replacement for Fernando Sosa.

Syntax Error wrote:Barry is living a good life time with his health & wealth intact.

He isn't slurring his words & making bizarre pronouncements; in short, a fighter with his style retired at exactly the right time.

Very well put.

Controversial wrote:

Sven Tingstrom wrote:
I wonder how many fights Cruz had outdoors in the summer in Nevada before the McGuigan? I wonder if all of the fights of Cruz before McGuigan were in air conditioned arenas? I wonder what prevented McGuigan from training in Nevada and getting acclimated to the heat?

Who knows but Cruz was more acclimatised to extremes of heat than McGuigan was and trained in those conditions. No one is saying McGuigan fought the right fight or prepared correctly. The point is McGuigan was winning upto the last round and his high tempo work rate was his downfall in those conditions. The heat was the factor in him losing not that Cruz was the superior fighter.

You say Cruz was acclamated to the heat, but when did he fight in that type of heat? That's Sven's point. Also, McGuigan could've trained in NV just like Cruz.

Syntax Error wrote:Barry is living a good life time with his health & wealth intact.

He isn't slurring his words & making bizarre pronouncements; in short, a fighter with his style retired at exactly the right time.

My sentiments exactly. Perfectly timed retirement.

Rover wrote:
I'll take Chris Shenkel's word for what the conditions were; Taylor, a Charlotte native, couldn't go on because of the heat.
As for McGuigan, if you have to go to "he'd have won in the UK," that indicates inferiority to me. Cruz had to deal with the same heat. And Cruz had never gone 15 rounds, either; he was a late replacement for Fernando Sosa.

Whatever the conditions they were nowhere near the conditions McGuigan fought Cruz in, not by a million miles. If Taylor was so heat stricken after 8 rounds then maybe he didn't train properly?

Rover wrote:
You say Cruz was acclamated to the heat, but when did he fight in that type of heat? That's Sven's point. Also, McGuigan could've trained in NV just like Cruz.

Cruz was acclimatised because he was born and lived in those conditions all his life. The highest temperature ever recorded in Belfast is 87 degrees. That isn't very high and when you compare that to the 125 degree it hit in the Cruz fight it is a huge factor. Cruz lived in a hot state, so was more used to it, its not a hard concept to understand really. Just like Eskimos are more acclimatised to cold weather than a Jamaican is.

Yes McGuigan could have trained in the same conditions, his mistake, I never said he wasn't blameless. What I said was the heat had more of an effect on McGuigan and that was the reason he lost, not because Cruz was the better fighter. If he wasn't dropped in the last round he would've won on the scorecards.

Controversial wrote:. Just like Eskimos are more acclimatised to cold weather than a Jamaican is.
.

Ever seen cool runnings? :)

The Insider wrote:

Controversial wrote:. Just like Eskimos are more acclimatised to cold weather than a Jamaican is.
.

Ever seen cool runnings? :)

Ha