BoxRec

If Ali had given Foreman an immediate rematch, and Foreman learnt from his mistakes and didn't waste vast amounts of energy like he did in the first fight, what do you reckon the outcome would have been?

but what state is georges mind after the first fight? put him in again two/3months later...he loses again. he waits a year/18 months and thats a different story

Thing of it is, had he gotten an immediate rematch it wouldn't of made a difference. He was still the same old George, and had the same old attitudes and gimmicks. In 1975 all he demonstrated was that he was still a bruiser, and he would have fallen into the same old trap that he had done in Zaire. George Foreman would have beaten himself, again. Now had he waited to say 1976-1977 to of fought Ali, maybe he would of simmered down a little bit, just enough to of decisioned Ali and I only say that because Ali was practically shot by the time he faced the Lyle's and Young's. I used to think George could have beat him in a rematch, and he was a deserving contender following losing the title, and maybe Ali did avoid him just a tad, but I don't see him changing it up enough to of done something much different than Zaire. Even Foreman will say it took him a decade to finally change all around as a man and as a fighter, between becoming a Christian and ridding his mind of doubts and hatred, and adapting to old age picking up a more defensive/counter punching style. THAT George would of given Ali alot of problems in 1974, let alone later. But as it is, we can only go by his performances following Zaire, and he was still the raging monster that threw bombs, did dirty tactics, and fought out of anger and pure aggression and little science or method to his madness. There would of been no change, maybe the fight would of lasted more than eight rounds maybe, but he still would of lost.

I think Foreman could have beaten Ali in '75 but I actually think he would have had to fight a similar type of fight as he did in '74. The key is to not have the fight in Africa and to pace himself just a little bit. Foreman could never outbox Ali so a more measured approach, like he tried to adopt post Zaire, would not have worked imo. An older Ali by a year or so, a more friendly climate and a slightly slower pace might just swing it in Foreman's favor.

thats my opinion

I agree, mostly, but in Zaire I don't think we saw Ali draw on his reserves to the extent he had to with Frazier. I think he could have dug deeper if needed. That said, his decline was pretty steep after this, and for sure at some point later in the decade Foreman beats him, but a year? Not sure. The Ali that beat Frazier in Manila wins this one for me.The Ali who squeaked past Ellis, maybe not. The Ali who lost to Spinks would have had no chance.

I don't think George actually improved or learned much until after the Lyle fight when they stepped his competition back down and he appeared to learn how to better control himself. The Foreman of '77 was a much better fighter than the earlier George. By then he had learned what to do with his exccellent jab, had shortened up his punches and fought more in control which would have allowed him to last deeper into the fight. Ali had also declined by then, so I'd say that the Foreman of '77 would have had a decent chance of beating Ali.

I see the exact same result if they had fought again!

Thing about George though,he seemed like the type of fighter who if he gets stopped,may fall apart a little mentaly. He had the tools and power to beat Ali,but didn't do it. Its gonna play on his mind. I doubt whether George would think he could beat Ali in a rematch. He's gonna be telling himself from the time the rematch contract is signed that"gee I hit Ali with everything and he didn't go anywhere" that's a bad feeling. Demoralizing. And,of course Mahamad would remind him of it ten times a day.

Same result for George the second time as Ali would mentally tore George . George would likely be so.confused n Angry he blows his load again. The Second George would be more competitive imo

The second George was too slow for Ali, he'd get busted up bad. Competitive is an odd choice of words, Foreman won round after round.

I don't think the second George would get stopped by Ali from 1974. Its possible he could make it very close figgt

Why?

scallum wrote:I don't think the second George would get stopped by Ali from 1974. Its possible he could make it very close figgt

Maybe not stopped but in his second career he was steered well clear of anyone with any kind of foot or hand speed. Must have been a reason for that wouldn't you think?

Not quite. Adilson rodrigues moved very well and had decent hand speed, Schulz too,obviously Holyfield and Morrison beat him but i dont think Ali and Young beating the young foreman means there was a blueprint. I really think the post 1976 Ali, the 76-77 Foreman would have beaten him.

The real blue print to beating Foreman mk 1 was get him to fight in some muggy,hot tropical 3rd world country outdoors with a guy who will test his stamina.

Rodrigues fought virtually flat footed every time I saw him. Ali might not stop Old George, but he'd win every round that was fought.

Controversial wrote:If Ali had given Foreman an immediate rematch, and Foreman learnt from his mistakes and didn't waste vast amounts of energy like he did in the first fight, what do you reckon the outcome would have been?

Ali on points.

Foreman was too slow & predictable to outpoint Ali & Ali was too tough to be KOd by Foreman.

foreman did not only get koed in zaire, he was behind
on points. he was just not ring smart enough in his first
career, be it early or late, to conquer the genius ali. the
lyle bout shows the same foreman, who had all sorts of
problems once the other guy would keep standing after
getting hit. ali's intelligence would have beat him, though
i think it would have been tougher for ali to make it again.
i imagine it was one of the fights where ali was glad it was
over. not as much as manila of course but still. winning is
one thing, but suffering these broad sides must hurt ...

mugabi wrote:Not quite. Adilson rodrigues moved very well and had decent hand speed, Schulz too,obviously Holyfield and Morrison beat him but i dont think Ali and Young beating the young foreman means there was a blueprint. I really think the post 1976 Ali, the 76-77 Foreman would have beaten him.

The real blue print to beating Foreman mk 1 was get him to fight in some muggy,hot tropical 3rd world country outdoors with a guy who will test his stamina.

Agree on the blueprint to beat Foreman mk I but the second version could not cope with speed and movement as shown vs. Morrison. As for Schulz being a mover with hand speed, only in contrast to old man George.