BoxRec

Oliver's annual piece is in:

http://news.boxrec.com/news/2013/2013-w ... -step-down



Any additions to either list?

It's quite telling that all five of those that need to step up have been or are at the mercy of Britains Greatest Promoter for over 30 years.

Those from last year that did step up (Rees and Magee) are the only ones who weren't hindered in the same way.

earsjohn wrote:It's quite telling that all five of those that need to step up have been or are at the mercy of Britains Greatest Promoter for over 30 years.

Those from last year that did step up (Rees and Magee) are the only ones who weren't hindered in the same way.

Price has not.

leforge wrote:

earsjohn wrote:It's quite telling that all five of those that need to step up have been or are at the mercy of Britains Greatest Promoter for over 30 years.

Those from last year that did step up (Rees and Magee) are the only ones who weren't hindered in the same way.

Price has not.

Ah sorry - I thought he signed up (through Maloney) for his fights to be shown on allegedly. I'm sure the Harrison fight was broadcast to the millions of BN subscribers.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:

earsjohn wrote:It's quite telling that all five of those that need to step up have been or are at the mercy of Britains Greatest Promoter for over 30 years.

Those from last year that did step up (Rees and Magee) are the only ones who weren't hindered in the same way.

Same old stuff in 2013 I see.

In what world was Tony Bellew hindered by Warren's match making for him?

Did he even fight for Warren in 2012?

Haven't Bellew and Warren spent most of 2012 at loggerheads on Twitter, Sun columns and in courtrooms? Surely Bellew, who has always claimed that he wants to be busy, would have been fighting more often if the legal situation didn't exist?

My complaint is not directly at the matchmaking of Warren, but a more general observation, mostly derived from the obvious hindrance that funding a TV channel provides to putting his fighters in risky fights.

earsjohn wrote:

leforge wrote:

earsjohn wrote:It's quite telling that all five of those that need to step up have been or are at the mercy of Britains Greatest Promoter for over 30 years.

Those from last year that did step up (Rees and Magee) are the only ones who weren't hindered in the same way.

Price has not.

Ah sorry - I thought he signed up (through Maloney) for his fights to be shown on allegedly. I'm sure the Harrison fight was broadcast to the millions of BN subscribers.

still at moment promoted by Maloney they only on the tv channel.

Haven't Bellew and Warren spent most of 2012 at loggerheads on Twitter, Sun columns and in courtrooms? Surely Bellew, who has always claimed that he wants to be busy, would have been fighting more often if the legal situation didn't exist?

My complaint is not directly at the matchmaking of Warren, but a more general observation, mostly derived from the obvious hindrance that funding a TV channel provides to putting his fighters in risky fights.[/quote]
Bellew fought 3 times in 2012.

I agree with The Dark Destroyer that Bellew was matched well under FW's banner. That's not to say Matchroom won't do a good job with him, too. I've always thought that FW, with his own expertise and Powell's and the brilliant Ernie Fossey's before him, move fighters at just about the right pace for their abilities and potential. The problems come when the upward development begins to plateau. At that point, Warren tends to get a bit risk averse and prefers to under-match, cherry-pick and look for big name guys who are on the slide to pitch in against his big draw fighters. Both Naz and Hatton are good examples of men who were impacted by this strategy and ultimately walked away from Warren (despite making their initial fortunes with him). Bellew didn't hang around that long. Perhaps Cleverly has.

"Nineteen months ago, super-middleweight Groves had what appeared to be his breakout win when he outpointed bitter rival and Olympic gold medallist James DeGale. Since then, his career has stalled somewhat, with just three routine wins, (with typical class he 'dumped' the respected Lonsdale belt after sitting on it for ages, pictured) and he fought only twice in 2012 – once against a mid-carder last time out against the ancient and unambitious Glen Johnson. He needs to make strides back towards world class – and quickly."

Oliver obviously blames George Groves.

I think there is a case there... obviously the full ins and outs wont be known to us, but Groves' CV post Degale is reading like he lost it, Degales like he won it.

Why oh why oh why did Groves not sign for Matchroom ?
I'll never work that one out.

@matt___s wrote:I think there is a case there... obviously the full ins and outs wont be known to us, but Groves' CV post Degale is reading like he lost it, Degales like he won it.

It helped that fwank got Degale the European title fight and Groves got injured but i thought Degale looked poor against the french guy.To have Groves in this list considering he did get injured and did beat Smith better then Degale and had a good fight in america which impressed some yanks and did a decent job on Glencoffe(shame he couldn`t pull the trigger anymore) is harsh considering he was willing to fight Stiglitz.

Parson Cross wrote:Why oh why oh why did Groves not sign for Matchroom ?
I'll never work that one out.

He has boxed twice in London and once in America. He also had a World Title fight lined up which he pulled out of through no fault of FW's. At Matchroom he would have been second fiddle, by a long way, to Froch. Look at Bellew and see how much he has 'benefitted'. From a World title shot in your hometown to Miranda, etc... The grass is not always greener...

mickey1975 wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Why oh why oh why did Groves not sign for Matchroom ?
I'll never work that one out.

He has boxed twice in London and once in America. He also had a World Title fight lined up which he pulled out of through no fault of FW's. At Matchroom he would have been second fiddle, by a long way, to Froch. Look at Bellew and see how much he has 'benefitted'. From a World title shot in your hometown to Miranda, etc... The grass is not always greener...

bit contradictory there. Surely if bellew stayed with FW then he would have remained second fiddle to cleverly by a long way. If bellew had got the nod would he really want the last 18 months or so that have been 'delivered' for clev? I.e. Largely paper champ in the weakest sanctioning body.

That said, fwank has largely done ok by groves imo. He's well positioned for a world title tilt this year. He'd have also loved seeing degale leave the stable no doubt, and fwank doing a 180 turn and implying groves was the clear winner in their scrap after all.

Dont forget Groves has been unlucky with injuries which has railroaded him more than any promoter could.

100% agree with Cleverly and Bellew needing to step up and fight quality in their division; maybe they could fight each other again (unlikely though given the bad blood now).

Price keeps on knocking everyone out, so he may struggle to get credible opponents at this rate (He needs a Pulev or someone in that category NOT Chisora who has lost 4 already).

Someone who has to step up is Scott Quigg, he's too good not to so hopefully he does.

I think Bellew was entitled to have a grievance with Allegedly.

Despite giving (rather than getting, let's be honest) him a world title fight, one that many people thought he won, he was completely sidelined, with little obvious effort to get him back in the mix.

It was a case of ''you got what you wanted, now get back in your box'', and Cleverly was anointed as Allegedly's next project, given that he seems unable/unwilling to have more than one at a time.

Not that it did Nathan much good, as the author of the article states, one of the worst mismatches I've ever seen, against a guy picked solely because he'd never been stretched.... and then a saga getting him an opponent in America.

For me Hennessey has to deliver some better fights for Degale and Fury in 2013

The Dark Destroyer wrote:

Naandrew wrote:For me Hennessey has to deliver some better fights for Degale and Fury in 2013

What's been wrong with Degale's comp? And Tyson has just faced the best fighter he's ever fought and looked very good.

Well Degale has been unlucky with the FW situation not watched his last fight but his first with Hennessey pushed him a lot more than expected.

I do think both should be fighting for World Titles next year. Vitali will vacate WBC heavyweight title and Ward hasn't made a mandatory of the WBC belt which he won over a year ago can see him vacating, so Degale must be close to that as well with the Silver belt he has.

Good World title fights on terrestrial TV featuring British fighters will do the sport good.

squared circle wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Why oh why oh why did Groves not sign for Matchroom ?
I'll never work that one out.

He has boxed twice in London and once in America. He also had a World Title fight lined up which he pulled out of through no fault of FW's. At Matchroom he would have been second fiddle, by a long way, to Froch. Look at Bellew and see how much he has 'benefitted'. From a World title shot in your hometown to Miranda, etc... The grass is not always greener...

bit contradictory there. Surely if bellew stayed with FW then he would have remained second fiddle to cleverly by a long way. If bellew had got the nod would he really want the last 18 months or so that have been 'delivered' for clev? I.e. Largely paper champ in the weakest sanctioning body.

That said, fwank has largely done ok by groves imo. He's well positioned for a world title tilt this year. He'd have also loved seeing degale leave the stable no doubt, and fwank doing a 180 turn and implying groves was the clear winner in their scrap after all.

Fwank has never said or implied he felt Groves deserved the nod in the DeGale fight. He has said he would fsavi=our him to win if they were to box each other again.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:
He fought three times in 2012, all for Matchroom, one of those including a fight against one of the worst challengers ever brought over here, rivalled on the same night by Hector 'I can't take a left jab' Saldivia. Warren matched Bellew well up and until he left, he even got the lad a title shot in his home city when he was 16-0 in 2011.

lol

Why should Warren get credit for 'getting' Bellew a shot at a paper title against his own guy?

You were obviously giving him credit for getting Bellew a 'title shot' as part of your argument that Bellew has been matched well.

I agree that he has been matched well, but Bellew isn't exactly at a level where he has so much ability that people are screaming for him to be let off the leash, or a cash cow Warren feels he has to protect like he did with Hatton.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:You were obviously giving him credit for getting Bellew a 'title shot' as part of your argument that Bellew has been matched well.

I agree that he has been matched well, but Bellew isn't exactly at a level where he has so much ability that people are screaming for him to be let off the leash.

If you agree that he was matched well under Warren I don't see what you have an issue with. My point about the title is that someone blamed Warren for Bellew's alleged poor 2012, and the last fight he had under him was a world title shot in his home town in 2011, kind of a big deal, no? I give credit to Warren in as much as he made the fight, in Liverpool for a fighter who hadn't earned his shot, I know what you'll reply to that about WBO challengers etc but it doesn't negate my point. Bellew was matched well under Warren, I don't see how anyone can blame him for Bellew's 2012, he managed to fight three times.

So is it acceptable for a fringe-level up and coming young fighter to be fighting just 3 times a year at this stage of his career? I know it's now the industry norm, but doesn't mean it should be considered acceptable.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:
Maybe he should have a word with his promoters then, eh?

Bellew got the title shot because he shared a weight division with a fellow Warren titlist. For Warren, Bellew v Cleverly was easy to make and ensured the maximum amount of money could be kept in house. It could also be seen as a risk-free defence for Nathan as Bellew was still raw with the fight being sold on the back of comments in the build up to the aborted first defence when Bellew was attempting to drop weight to make the fight. It was not viewed as a competitive fight by most (beforehand).

In the event it was a lot closer than predicted with a number of observers scoring for Bellew (not me) to the extent that a rematch seemed the natural next step. Warren and Cleverly have shown no interest in that fight, instead seeking to boost his profile / milk the title against Carpency, Hawk and now Krasniqi. In the meantime, Bellew was denied the chance to defend his Commonwealth title as a member of FWP had mistakenly informed him that he had to dump the belt in order to take the WBO title fight. The Commonwealth title was used as a promotional tool for an otherwise dismal headline fight featuring on allegedly the next night.

Three fights in the subsequent year to this is actually a step forward.