BoxRec

Just rewatched the fight - forgot what a compelling fight it was, and what a great performance it was by calzaghe - Joe just past his peak, put on a clinic, boxing and doing just enough brawling to keep the Dane on his heels. Joe really was a fantastic fighter, a great shame he spent most of his career hiding behind his WBO belt.

I don't think he could have beaten Jones Jr, at 168 Jones was almost superhuman, but i don't think anyone would have toyed with Joe.

It was a very good performance by Joe. Pulled away over the last half a dozen.

From memory, were the scores a little too wide though?

He was brilliant that night. I remember he went to something like Plan D after the first few didn't work and pulled away. Special fighter and as much as I admire Froch it's that type of performance which puts Joe above him.

I watched it again over christmas,Calzaghe took some really good shots in the 4th and 5th and that was Kessler at his very best,great fight.

absolutely agree with everything above, you simply can't ignore that kind of performance, dondada sums it up really but being able to switch something like a plan D or E half way through a fight when the adrenalin is pumping and your head is fuzzy is top quality. Its a shame someone like Khan cannot learn to do that.

Calzaghe v Froch is just one of those fights (like paq v mayweather) i would have loved to have seen when both at their peak.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:It's the second half where he really showed what he was capable of, Kessler was more than in the fight till Calzaghe turned it up. I remember post fight Kessler said his speed was ridiculous.

i had a really good chat with a guy about this last night

his point was that Calzaghe changed his rythmn, around round 6 maybe. instead of boxing a 1-2 sort of rythmn, feint-punch or move-punch or whatever, he started boxing a 1-3 type rythmn, feint-move-punch, or feint feint move, feint punch move, or whatever. basically doing too many micro-movements for Kessler to effectively react to, because by the time he was reacting to the 2nd move of the rythmn Joe was executing the 3rd move.

it made sense at the pub last night anyway

lillywhite14 wrote:It was a very good performance by Joe. Pulled away over the last half a dozen.

From memory, were the scores a little too wide though?

One of them was, yes. 9-3 was very harsh on Kessler I thought.

One if the best fights I've seen live. Remember Warren bricking it in the first few rounds and going to Joes corner a couple of times. As soon as joe negated kesslers short uppercut he pulled away in the fight. As someone says Joe had plan A, B, C and even D whilst Kessler didn't. So huge credit goes to joe for pulling it off but big credit to Enzo for the gameplay etc. Suprises me the trainers who struggle with plan b and C's don't go and get tips from Enzo.

Yeah it was a fantastic fight. I think Calzaghe's body work goes much unnoticed and that played into making the changes Joe made easier (Kessler slowed up and output got less cause I think he was hurt to the body)

As people know and have rediculed I scored the fight a draw, but thats one of the few occasions where a round by round scoring doesn't reflect the fight (much like Barrera vs Hamed). Calzaghe won the fight when looking at the fight as a whole close, but clear..... Hopkins was a different matter, although I know lots of people who think the Kessler fight was closer than the Hopkins fight.

Even though Calzaghe was correct in that he had proven himself beyond doubt the better man that night. I would have liked to have seen a rematch - Kessler looked to have learned a lot from his defeat and when he splattered Haussler, Kessler and Saurland gave each other a look that just said "now I am ready for Joe".

However, injuries took their toll and Kessler was definately on the slide when he faced Froch. The balance, the speed and the accuracy wasn't there (although the heart was in abudance). Kessler showed against Calzaghe, Ward and Froch that he isn't the most adaptive fighter - so maybe Joe would have found a way again a year down the line. I would have loved to have seen it.

I too would love to have seen a rematch. Didn't Joe say after he wasn't overly keen though. Something like I dont do rematches and he ( Kessler ) would only do better? Joe's best win

Dirk Kelly wrote:One if the best fights I've seen live. Remember Warren bricking it in the first few rounds and going to Joes corner a couple of times. As soon as joe negated kesslers short uppercut he pulled away in the fight. As someone says Joe had plan A, B, C and even D whilst Kessler didn't. So huge credit goes to joe for pulling it off but big credit to Enzo for the gameplay etc. Suprises me the trainers who struggle with plan b and C's don't go and get tips from Enzo.

I don't know whether the occasion got to Enzo or not, but he seemed to "lose it" against Hopkins and I do think many people have possibily been over critical of his display there and remember it more.

lillywhite14 wrote:I too would love to have seen a rematch. Didn't Joe say after he wasn't overly keen though. Something like I dont do rematches and he ( Kessler ) would only do better? Joe's best win

Yeah, and that was a criticism I had with Joe. He should have given Reid a rematch... good pay day for an easy nights work IMO - fight was close enough to warrant a rematch (if Reid couldn't have beaten Joe out of sight that night he wouldn't have stood a chance with Joe at 100%). He definately should have given Hopkins a rematch - even Joe himself as since admitted that fight could have gone either way. I also think Kessler after Haussler was worthy of a rematch.

The only fighter he gave a rematch too was the fighter he KO'd in a round.... poor form really.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Joe really was a fantastic fighter, a great shame he spent most of his career hiding behind his WBO belt.

Good post and I particularly agree with the excerpt I have quoted you on.

Calzaghe was top level world class for years. He didn't need to stay locked away in the UK protecting a crappy belt. He was not a Eubank or Benn level fighter who were noticeably less than outstanding. We and, more importantly, Joe missed out on some superfights over the years. His legacy could've been so much more than it is. Yes his '0' may have gone but he'd have been a global legend. The way he fought guys like Kessler and Lacy was masterful.

stujones wrote:Yeah it was a fantastic fight. I think Calzaghe's body work goes much unnoticed and that played into making the changes Joe made easier (Kessler slowed up and output got less cause I think he was hurt to the body)

.

counter right uppercut, something like 38 seconds left in the 8th round.

JLP wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Joe really was a fantastic fighter, a great shame he spent most of his career hiding behind his WBO belt.

Good post and I particularly agree with the excerpt I have quoted you on.

Calzaghe was top level world class for years. He didn't need to stay locked away in the UK protecting a crappy belt. He was not a Eubank or Benn level fighter who were noticeably less than outstanding. We and, more importantly, Joe missed out on some superfights over the years. His legacy could've been so much more than it is. Yes his '0' may have gone but he'd have been a global legend. The way he fought guys like Kessler and Lacy was masterful.

Agreed.

It's why I got so pissed off in regards to Calzaghe-you could see he was properly special yet didn't seem overly bothered to do anything about it.

Counter-Puncher wrote:counter right uppercut, something like 38 seconds left in the 8th round.

Dirk Kelly wrote:So huge credit goes to joe for pulling it off but big credit to Enzo for the gameplay etc. Suprises me the trainers who struggle with plan b and C's don't go and get tips from Enzo.

very little to do with Enzo, in my opinion. Joe was an adaptable fighter. Enzo's version of adaptability would barely encompas saying 'bim-bam-bim' instead of 'bish bash bosh', you listenin now you listenin now economise with the jab, period, period, it's period. lol.

if anything give credit to Dean Powell, it was him who said more than once for Joe to go to the body.

I have seen this fight waaaaaaay too many times.

serious Joe man-love.

I am going to have to get this dvd out tonight, dying to watch the fight now after recalling the action here

Datsue wrote:

JLP wrote:
Good post and I particularly agree with the excerpt I have quoted you on.

Calzaghe was top level world class for years. He didn't need to stay locked away in the UK protecting a crappy belt. He was not a Eubank or Benn level fighter who were noticeably less than outstanding. We and, more importantly, Joe missed out on some superfights over the years. His legacy could've been so much more than it is. Yes his '0' may have gone but he'd have been a global legend. The way he fought guys like Kessler and Lacy was masterful.

Agreed.

It's why I got so pissed off in regards to Calzaghe-you could see he was properly special yet didn't seem overly bothered to do anything about it.
:

mmm - I would say yes and no. Joe was special yes. Arguably the most talented fighter ever to come from the UK - but prime Roy and Bernard Hopkins special I aint so sure about.... those are two true all time greats.

In some ways, through frustrating - the "we'll never know how good Joe was" arguement enhances his legendary standing more than losing say a 116-112 decision against Jones (which would have been the closest Jones would have been pushed) or getting a robbery in Germany against Ottke.

Besides Jones and Hopkins many at Middle (moving up), Super Middle and Light Heavy were really only of the level of the BETTER fighters Joe beat already.

Two of Joe's "natural" rivals were most often ridiculed, but underated, fighters who wouldn't often fight out of Germany - and I think it might have been no win situation because most people - for some reason didn't rate Beyer or Ottke depsite both being world champions for the best part of 10 years.

The other two rivals were IMO possibly too good for Joe (we are talking two all time greats IMO) and therefore people would be aware of Joe's standing.

Not sure how victories over the likes of Antwun Echols (muched talked about at the time), Harry Simon etc would have enhanced Joe's legacy in the grand scheme of things (knowing that Joe would go on to beat Kessler an aging Hopkins, Lacy etc) - I would argue that Joe is the PERFECTLY managed careers given the depth of talent in the devisions. Enough decent wins to know he is a geniune world class talent, but not the probably defeats in which we would know his level.

He should have rematched the three fighters who gave him a tough time of it - Hopkins, Reid and Kessler.

in a 3 fight series against Jones, Stu, say over a 3-4 year period, i would have wagered you that Joe would have taken at least one off Jones.

Counter-puncher wrote:in a 3 fight series against Jones, Stu, say over a 3-4 year period, i would have wagered you that Joe would have taken at least one off Jones.

We'll never know, which for me signifies just how perfectly Joe was managed. I think Jones would have won the first fight comfortable enough for there not to be a demand for a rematch. Look at how much Hopkins needed to do (in terms of wins) to actually get the public wanting a rematch with Roy.

Nobody wanted to see Hopkins vs Jones 2 untill 2001 - 8 years after their fight. Forget about their demands - there was no public demand untill Hopkins made about million defenses of his title and smashed Tito Trinidad - and he needed to smash him to get the public interested.

Sorry, to clarify what I meant by 116-112 decision is the closest Roy would have been pushed in that no other fighter of their era would have lost an 8-4 verdict to a prime Roy... everyone else would have lost wider.... I didn't mean that's the closest Joe could have managed, after all on his record he has a W over Roy.

Prime Roy Jones almost certainly beats Joe for me but that certainly doesn't detract from his outstanding talent.

I'd have loved to have seen Calzaghe at his best in with Ward of today. That'd have been a really close contest.

The only thing with Calzaghe, for me , is he stayed and killed himself making weight for 10yrs when the easiest, most natural thing would have been to move up. He would have only have improved if he had done that. His body in better shape, even more speed, stamina, power etc..

The MAIN reason he didn't.....a Prime Roy Jones holding all the belts and Joe, whilst he would beat plenty of the guys around the LH div back then. He would not have beaten RJJ. Full stop.

Joe and W@rren knew that and was content to milk his title in Wales, racking up wins and achieving his status via other means, lots of defences agaist pretty much anyone, good, bad or just plain shite and making £££'s, which obviously delighted himself and 'Allegedly.

Fair play though, a genuine great fighter. A shame he could have been so much more.

Just chiming in on the admiration, you watch those ABA finals and you realise just how much better he was than his peers. He beat some very good guys that were good pros later on.

orbtastic wrote:Just chiming in on the admiration, you watch those ABA finals and you realise just how much better he was than his peers. He beat some very good guys that were good pros later on.

Yep, so true, and people forget (apart from Coco!) how much his hand injuries plagued him and forced him to adapt later on his career - he was genuinely heavy-handed back in the day. He'd have undoubtedly stopped more fighters conclusively at world level if his hands had held up better.
Great memory on the 8th round by the way CP. I'm positive I remember a post-fight interview with Kessler where he admitted that body shot nearly dropped him and took a lot out of him for the rest of the fight. Didn't the ref stop Calzaghe from following up?

Deserter wrote:

orbtastic wrote:Just chiming in on the admiration, you watch those ABA finals and you realise just how much better he was than his peers. He beat some very good guys that were good pros later on.

Yep, so true, and people forget (apart from Coco!) how much his hand injuries plagued him and forced him to adapt later on his career - he was genuinely heavy-handed back in the day. He'd have undoubtedly stopped more fighters conclusively at world level if his hands had held up better.
Great memory on the 8th round by the way CP. I'm positive I remember a post-fight interview with Kessler where he admitted that body shot nearly dropped him and took a lot out of him for the rest of the fight. Didn't the ref stop Calzaghe from following up?

Its not great memory, he watches it every night!