BoxRec

In retrospect,what was it that he was lacking in his boxing/fighting ability or even his personality
that had prevented him from becoming the(undisputed)Heavyweight Champion of the World during the 1970's?

I think it came down to style and personality. Bugner by no means was flashy or exciting, and he wasn't a talker or attention seeker. Myself personally I got him ranked in the top five 1970's heavyweights. I think in combination with him defeating 'Enry it put a sour taste in peoples mouths on both sides of the pond. He was essentially a man without a country because of it. Wasnt until he immigrated to Australia did he find the sort of fame and acceptance he always looked for. Even Bugner has said on many occasions that boxing wasnt something he loved doing, and he had a safety first approach.

Joe Bugner had come to America in 1970 to get some additional boxing experience by becoming
sparring partners for Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali,Jimmy Ellis, Thad Spencer and Sonny Liston .
He later fought Joe Frazier but it wasnt for the Heavyweight Championship.
He also fought Ali the first time in 1973 when the Heavyweight Championship wasnt on the line.
Suppose Joe Bugner had instead fought for the (undisputed)HWT championship three times
in January 1973 against Joe Frazier
October 1975 against George Foreman
and September 1977 against Muhammad Ali(for the first and only time)?

here is an interview from 2008


http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/0803/two.htm

another interview with Joe Bugner from 2010.


http://www.doghouseboxing.com/DHB/Ruff092110.htm

Maybe the reason is mentioned here somewhere(probably the need for $$$).
But why didnt Joe Bugner wait until at least until he could compete for a spot on the British Boxing team for the 1968 Olympic Trials
before he turned pro December 1967 at age 17?
Who was it that represented as the Hwyt boxer for Britain in the 1968 Olympics?(if anyone).

The Hair,the hair.
I think that may have been one of the reasons.
A Goldi-Locks boxer just doesnt fit the mental image of a fighter .

Here is one of his toughest ring battles.
A 27 year old Joe Bugner vs a 36 year old Ron Lyle
March 1977.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roMCayAuwUw

Here was another tough fight for Bugner against Earnie Shavers from May 1982.
However notice at about 2:46 of this clip.
In the knock down.
Does it appear that Shavers had used (his) illegal tatic of holding the back of Bugner's neck and head in place
with his open left glove while he then delivers an uppercut?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHUfbVwn2bE

It was William Wells who represented Britian as heavyweight at the 1968 Olympics.
(TKO'din 3 by Ion Chepulis in the first rounds)
I wonder if any of the 2 losses of Joe Bugner's 16 fight amateur career were by William Wells.
Wells had earlier won the 1965 ABA Heavyweight title and the 1968 ABA Heavyweight title)

here is another interview from 2010 with some interesting details.

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/qa-joe-bugner-395521

Brutu wrote:I just thought of him recently mainly because of some recent comments on this thread by Il Duece
and also HH's radio interview with Chuck Wepner.
But why do posters here think that any kind of Joe Bugner-mania never really caught on here in America
in the early 1970's?
I dont think there was even Joe Bugner-mania in Britain.
Ali thought for sure that Bugner would be a future heavyweight Champion ,after their first bought in 1973.
I think I have several reasons why it was that he never caught on public interest really,
like Jerry Quarry or Chuck Wepner or even Duane Bobick.

in england joe wasnt viewed as truly english but as of hungarian stock. than at 21 he wins a hotley contested decisoion over a 36 year old joe bugner which ends the career of probably the most beloved british fighter ever up to that point. than add his safety first style (he could punch when he wanted tho) and you get what u got. he lost all the big ones too, hardly suprising in that era, but with henry cooper people genuinely thought he had a chance with ali after the first fight as silly as it seems, with bugner they seldom expected him to beat a foreman, ali, frazier, quarry etc until that scintillating run in 86-87 when he beat tillis,bey and page in quick succession he didnt really beat too many contenders either.

Brutu wrote:Joe Bugner had come to America in 1970 to get some additional boxing experience by becoming
sparring partners for Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali,Jimmy Ellis, Thad Spencer and Sonny Liston .He later fought Joe Frazier but it wasnt for the Heavyweight Championship.
He also fought Ali the first time in 1973 when the Heavyweight Championship wasnt on the line.
Suppose Joe Bugner had instead fought for the (undisputed)HWT championship three times
in January 1973 against Joe Frazier
October 1975 against George Foreman
and September 1977 against Muhammad Ali(for the first and only time)?

lol i wasnt aware they excavated sonnys remains and got them to spar bugner!!
PS: I jest i always enjoy your posts and this thread is no exception.

Joe Bugner vs Chuck Wepner
September.8.1970
Empire Pool,Wembley,London England

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02rfCwzMfNc

I think Mugabi hit the nail on the head, he beat 'Enery, and was boring as hell to watch. He apparently ribbed Cooper a bit in a joint interview, about the fact that he went the distance with Ali and Cooper didn't. Henry replied "But Joe, some of us were trying to win..." I think that tells you all you need to know.

our 'enery gaaawd bless im he were a good 'un.
bugner he were a bad 'un. end of

I think I one of the reasons that I never really got on the Bugner bandwagon was that,although a terrific boxer,
his style basically lacked drama, too conventional.He really didnt fight with a passion it seemed.
Although he did look uncharacteristicly aggressive in the Wepner figh there.
He mainly looked just happy to go the distance in his more high profile important fights.

many british fight followers at the time disliked bugner because he was scared of getting clumped. we like someone who has a go and gives it all and possibly gets pole-axed in the process. joe was not that fighter. there are reasons for that but i give him full credit for having a good level of talent and making a good career. completely ruled european heavyweight boxing for a fair amount of time.

Brutu wrote:The Hair,the hair.
I think that may have been one of the reasons.
A Goldi-Locks boxer just doesnt fit the mental image of a fighter .

Possibly it may have been his voice too.
If you were talking to him on the other end of a phone
back in 1975,and didnt know whom you were speaking to,I think you would assume that you were speaking to some kind of a nerd
around 5 ft 8 " tall.
(with a funny accent)
But mainly it was the hair,the hair.
Every time I saw him on the telly back in the 1970's,I almost immediatly always thought of this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7de1sTeD6w

misterpunch wrote:many british fight followers at the time disliked bugner because he was scared of getting clumped. we like someone who has a go and gives it all and possibly gets pole-axed in the process. joe was not that fighter. there are reasons for that but i give him full credit for having a good level of talent and making a good career. completely ruled european heavyweight boxing for a fair amount of time.

I do think the allmighty journalists who hated him created this impression back in those austere non internet, non mobile phone, 3 tv channel days of the 1970s.Bugner was not scared of getting clumped he had a very good chin, he just saw boxing as more of a technical pursuit. he definetly could fight with passion when the mood took him, the way he sparked out winston allen, and dunn, the way he fought back with frazier. The ali fight in kuala lumpur was fought in inhumane outdoor heat. as someone who has experienced the skin burning searing and alternatively humid heat of that part of the world he was hardly going to come out like hagler-hearns against Ali.

I don't know much about Bugner's resume, but wouldn't his encounter with Frazier in '73 be considered one of his best efforts?

Bugner was a very good boxer, often underrated/overlooked. Yes he lost most of the big ones but they were against all time greats. I've always rated him highly.

dont get me wrong i rated joe very highly and actually enjoyed watching his "boring wins" over the best europeans of that era. but joe rarely risked taking one to get one in himself. and thats not a bad philosophy when all is said and done

Il Duce wrote:Some news,,,,

The thought was, that had Muhammad Ali defeated Joe Frazier on March 8, 1971, he would make his first defense against
the winner of the Henry Cooper vs. Joe Bugner bout (March 16, 1971).

The possibility of a 21 year-old Joe Bugner challenging Muhammad Ali in July 1971 could have been...

But, Andy Lewis (Joe's Manager) wanted no part of Joe Frazier at that time.

Source?

andy smith - its andy smith