BoxRec

Just wondering if he'll be on the HOF ballot.
No, I don't think Gamez belongs in the HOF.
Just goes to show how much titles have become devalued in recent years. Look how big Pryor/Arguello was; Hearns/Roldan happened just over 25 years ago, and now Gamez, who won belts in four weights, is hardly mentioned.

frankenfrank wrote:

Rover wrote:Just wondering if he'll be on the HOF ballot.
No, I don't think Gamez belongs in the HOF.
Just goes to show how much titles have become devalued in recent years. Look how big Pryor/Arguello was; Hearns/Roldan happened just over 25 years ago, and now Gamez, who won belts in four weights, is hardly mentioned.

If Ricardo Lopez meid it then Gamez shurly dizervs it .
Leo Gamez >>>> Ricardo Lopez
4 weight classes >> 2 weight classes
fair opposition >> shit opposition
never stopped antil 36 yrs of age >> retired at 31
road warrior >> reserved prins s

Gamez & Carbajal r my top 2 @ 108 end bilow .

Gamez>Lopez.

Lopez was 34 when he retired; he was born in July 1966 and had his last fight in December 2000.
Lopez also fought away from home many times. He won the title from Ohashi in Japan, fought there again twice, and fought in Korea and Thailand. Carbajal, on the other hand, never fought in Asia as a pro.

Gamez>Chavez, right, frankenfrank?
I mean, 4 weights>3, right?

Hey, Gamez>Arguello also, right?

And Gamez>Benitez, right?
And Gamez>Wilfredo Gomez, right?
And Gamez is certainly greater than Robinson, as 4 weights>2, right?
The stupidity of that post has sunk in even more.

You could bear it if I ranked JCC, Benitez and Arguello above Gamez?
More stupidity.
Your sole rationale for having ranked Gamez over Lopez was that 4 weights>2 weights.
Whom did Gamez beat of note?
You made a silly argument which I shredded.
And you still can't write English, I see.
And I notice you don't even address the issue of going on the road.
Yes, Lopez beat Alvarez, who didn't even make weight the second time.
Your claims about Benitez are just more conspiracy kook garbage from you.
BTW, you have Gamez top two at 108 and below?
Aside from Lopez, there's Chang, Zapata, Yuh, Gushiken and Chiquita Gonzalez, just to name a few clearly above Gamez.

What a massive pile of general statements.
And it can be shredded quite easily.
How many wins did Carbajal have as a pro overseas?
And the only thing you can do about Chang/Yuh/Zapata/Gushiken/Chiquita is to say that Carbajal and Gamez were greater than all of them.

That statement illustrates your idiocy when it comes to the lower weights.
Gamez>Yuh, who beat him twice?
And you focus on when the first time Gamez was stopped was (his age). In case you didn't know, one can lose decisively sans being stopped, and Gamez did.
Gamez wasn't exactly fighting big punchers throughout most of his career, either, including the two Koreans who beat him at light fly and the Korean and Thai WBA champs whom Gamez couldn't rest the title from at flyweight.

Gamez won his flyweight title in New York; it was a road fight for *both* fighters.
Just one example of your left-out facts.
Alberto Davila was better than anyone Gamez (prime or otherwise) ever beat by far.
So was Zamora.
As for your English, you wrote jibberish the two sentences before your last one. English isn't spelled with an "i," dunce. You sound like some twit who claims that 2+2=5 because that's the way math "shud" be. Grow a brain, nitwit. Christ, you become more and more pathetic post by post. You obviously weren't "tot" too well.

The rest of your post was just idiotic but at least comprehensible.
BTW, in your original post, you focused on the four weights > two weights argument, and your other "reasoning" that you've since provided is laughable.
Lopez won all of his titles away from Mexico.
WBC: From Ohashi in Japan.
WBO: From Sanchez in New York.
WBA: From Alvarez in Vegas.
IBF light fly: From Grigsby in Vegas.
As for your assertion that I know nothing but names, etc, that's nothing but the ramblings of a conspiracy kook who can't back up his kook claims.
Yeah, I shredded your stupidity, and I will continue to do it for as long as you want to keep going.
Oh, and the clue that gives it away that your main reasoning involves comparison of belts won in weight classes?
That you "can bare it" if Chavez, Benitez and Arguello are ranked ahead of Gamez.

Yeah, that's really a tough call to rank those guys over Gamez...in Fantasy Land.
Another statement that reveals how woeful your knowledge is.

frankenfrank wrote:

Rover wrote:What a massive pile of general statements.
And it can be shredded quite easily.
How many wins did Carbajal have as a pro overseas?
And the only thing you can do about Chang/Yuh/Zapata/Gushiken/Chiquita is to say that Carbajal and Gamez were greater than all of them.

That statement illustrates your idiocy when it comes to the lower weights.
Gamez>Yuh, who beat him twice?
And you focus on when the first time Gamez was stopped was (his age). In case you didn't know, one can lose decisively sans being stopped, and Gamez did.
Gamez wasn't exactly fighting big punchers throughout most of his career, either, including the two Koreans who beat him at light fly and the Korean and Thai WBA champs whom Gamez couldn't rest the title from at flyweight.

Gamez won his flyweight title in New York; it was a road fight for *both* fighters.
Just one example of your left-out facts.
Alberto Davila was better than anyone Gamez (prime or otherwise) ever beat by far.
So was Zamora.
As for your English, you wrote jibberish the two sentences before your last one. English isn't spelled with an "i," dunce. You sound like some twit who claims that 2+2=5 because that's the way math "shud" be. Grow a brain, nitwit. Christ, you become more and more pathetic post by post. You obviously weren't "tot" too well.

The rest of your post was just idiotic but at least comprehensible.
BTW, in your original post, you focused on the four weights > two weights argument, and your other "reasoning" that you've since provided is laughable.
Lopez won all of his titles away from Mexico.
WBC: From Ohashi in Japan.
WBO: From Sanchez in New York.
WBA: From Alvarez in Vegas.
IBF light fly: From Grigsby in Vegas.
As for your assertion that I know nothing but names, etc, that's nothing but the ramblings of a conspiracy kook who can't back up his kook claims.
Yeah, I shredded your stupidity, and I will continue to do it for as long as you want to keep going.
Oh, and the clue that gives it away that your main reasoning involves comparison of belts won in weight classes?
That you "can bare it" if Chavez, Benitez and Arguello are ranked ahead of Gamez.

Yeah, that's really a tough call to rank those guys over Gamez...in Fantasy Land.
Another statement that reveals how woeful your knowledge is.

Arguello got a gift against Ramirez and avoided another rematch with no other than.. Bobby Chacon.
And this is still ignoring his stoppage defeats, and I do not count his "losses" 2 cheater Pryor against him.
Gamez "on de ader hend" woz e viktim of robberies.
But since i ken olso c de positives ebaut Arguello, I can bear if some1 still ranks him hayer.
I tend 2 rank Chavez over Gamez myself. Never had it de opposite wei so far.
Benitez got at least 1 gift over Bruce Curry BTW, not counting his "loss" 2 Leonard against him, or in in Leonard's credit, mainly bikoz of Wilfredo being as drained as it tuk 2 get a fight signed vs Leonard, and u du not now wot i min
Ricardo Lopez was a serial bum beater, nothing more.
And Gamez' opponents were better than Ricardo Lopez'.
Davila might have been gud, but woz so undersized against Wilfredo Gomez, and Gomez chited vs Zarate, quite like Zarate chited vs Zamora (sori bat i wocht ol of diz faits end i now wot i min iven if u du not).

Counting Davila as a credible win 4 Gomez iz olmost ez bad ez kawnting Greg Richardson ez e kredibel win 4 Fennech, iven if I sink det Richardson woz gud end under8ed.

Haw du u now if eni1 "beat" Gamez if u hev not wocht it end der r not iven reports of KDs in dowz faits?
Ol u now iz det hi fot Korians in Koria, end Japaniz in Japan, end samtims still won by KO in dows circumstances.

Luk et de list of bums (except from Alvarez, whom is about 1.5 notches over a bum) u provided 4 Lopez' title fights, Gamez did not fight that level of opponents.

My lord, the stupidity continues.
1. There are quite a few Gamez fights available. If you've watched them, you'd know this. If you haven't, I have no interest in your opinions on them.
2. I was talking about Zarate v. Davila, not Gomez v. Davila.
3. Your Arguello comments are more silliness. Arguello stopped Chacon on cuts in a title defense. Chacon was better than anyone Gamez ever beat. Arguello's fight with Ramirez was a non-title fight, and Arguello deserved a close decision. Again, Ramirez was better than anyone Gamez ever beat.
4. Regarding Lopez, both Sorjaturong and Alvarez were better than anyone Gamez ever beat.
5. Curry was another non-title fight and no gift. Is that really the best you have? Please say you rank Leo Gamez over Benitez. That would be more evidence (as if we needed any more) of your stupidity.
Oh, and I notice you don't want to talk about that going on the road thing, considering Carbajal fought almost all his fights in his home country.
Still can't write English to form intelligible sentences--at least upon first read. Had to read that three times to figure out all of that mishmash.

frankenfrank wrote:

Rover wrote: My lord, the stupidity continues.
1. There are quite a few Gamez fights available. If you've watched them, you'd know this. If you haven't, I have no interest in your opinions on them.
2. I was talking about Zarate v. Davila, not Gomez v. Davila.
3. Your Arguello comments are more silliness. Arguello stopped Chacon on cuts in a title defense. Chacon was better than anyone Gamez ever beat. Arguello's fight with Ramirez was a non-title fight, and Arguello deserved a close decision. Again, Ramirez was better than anyone Gamez ever beat.
4. Regarding Lopez, both Sorjaturong and Alvarez were better than anyone Gamez ever beat.
5. Curry was another non-title fight and no gift. Is that really the best you have? Please say you rank Leo Gamez over Benitez. That would be more evidence (as if we needed any more) of your stupidity.
Oh, and I notice you don't want to talk about that going on the road thing, considering Carbajal fought almost all his fights in his home country.
Still can't write English to form intelligible sentences--at least upon first read. Had to read that three times to figure out all of that mishmash.

1. I managed 2 get only 1 of his fights so far, when he was past his prime at that.
2. Zarate beat Davila due 2 a cut.
3. Arguello cut Chacon and avoided rematching him, he did not deserve the gift that he got over Ramirez though, sorry that I watched it and know better.
True that Chacon and Ramirez, especially Ramirez were better than any1 whom Gamez beat. However, Arguello was lucky on both accounts, and 4 a fact avoided rematching them. Chacon was an overachiever due 2 his crowd (some crowds anyway) pleasing style, and him (and a rather done Olivares) giving Arguello as much of a trouble as they did, tells more about Arguello's worth than Chacon's worth.
4. disagree here. At least Hideki Todaka& Hugo Rafael Soto were better than Sorjatorung, at least on the level of Alvarez, and of Gamez' far from home fights u just do not know which 1s he really lost.
5. Curry floored benitez like 2 or 3 times to Benitez' 0 scored KDs on him. I bet u count a KO less than a 8-4 type decision too.
Benitez participated in much more high budget, high profile fights and enjoys a win over a well past his prime years and vastly undersized Duran, but p4p I doubt if he was better than Gamez at all. He was better than Gamez in some things, but not in everything.

Y should Carbajal had gone far way more than he did if he was the highest paid fighter in his weight zone?
He fought the best opposition available and got paid as much as he could 4 it, Y go 2 Japan/Thailand/Korea 4 chump change and risk getting fucked there?
There was no threat 4 him by fighters of those countries either, and they could always come 2 him and get a fairer treatment than almost every outsider ever got in their countries.

1. Zarate beat Davila. He knocked him down when he cut him. Cutting someone counts.
2. Ramirez didn't get the Arguello rematch because he lost to Mancini, who got the shot. The first fight was not a gift at all, and Chacon and Ramirez were better than Gamez or his opponents. As for Olivares, he was also better than Gamez or his opponents. Arguello KD'd Chacon and cut him up. Again, cuts count, and Arguello won that fight clearly, just like he did with Navarrete.
3. Here's a hint: You don't score a fight simply by saying that A got 2 KD's and B got 0, so A won. Benitez/Curry was scored by rounds, not even on the 10-point must system.
4. Todaka and Soto weren't better than Sorjaturong or Alvarez. Sorjaturong actually beat the champ (Chiquita) in his division. Soto and Todaka were beltholders.
5. You doubt if Gamez was better than Benitez?

Yep, that tells us all we need to know about your boxing acumen.
6. Ah, so much to shred regarding Carbajal. Myung-Woo Yuh along with Chiquita were the best light flies in the world when Carbajal won his belt--from Kittikasem in Phoenix. Yet, he never fought Yuh. You rank Gamez over Lopez and go into detail about going on the road, yet you give Carbajal a pass. Then the same applies to Lopez--except he won his title in Japan. You can't have it both ways. Lopez was with Don King for the last 7+ years of his career making very good money (for a minimumweight) fighting in Mexico and mainly the U.S., not his home country, unlike Carbajal.
As for your comment that Asian fighters would be treated fairer in the U.S., that's classic America bias. The U.S. has had many rotten decisions in favor of local fighters against foreigners. The fact remains that the farthest Carbajal traveled as a pro outside the U.S. was Mexico, not too far from Phoenix, so there was no issue regarding time zone differences. He also fought in Atlantic City, a three-hour time difference from Phoenix. Fact is that Lopez did what you praised Gamez for--going on the road, and Carbajal did nothing close to that.
BTW, if you want a real road warrior, look up Hilario Zapata, another fighter whom you claim Gamez is greater than. He fought in the U.S., Venezuela, Argentina, the Philippines, Thailand, Colombia, Japan and Korea against the best of his era.

frankenfrank, your use of language has evolved!

BoxBuzz wrote:frankenfrank, your use of language has evolved!

Absolutely. I only had to read that once to understand what he was saying.

I like Gamez but to say Ricardo Lopez fought only poor opposition is very unfair, his domination of many of his opponents was due to his special qualities as a fighter rather than the poor quality of his challengers.

fatcity69 wrote:I like Gamez but to say Ricardo Lopez fought only poor opposition is very unfair, his domination of many of his opponents was due to his special qualities as a fighter rather than the poor quality of his challengers.

You're dealing with someone who (having seen one Gamez fight) doubts Benitez was a better fighter.