BoxRec

just finished watching this fight for what feels like the millionth
time.
i am kind of curious as to what your scorecards looked like

the 3 judges had hearns ahead at the stoppage by 2,3 and 4 points
including the 13th round being a 10-8 round for leonard.

being that tommy was a 7-5 favorite in this fight and undefeated
if this fight was a 12 rounder.how would this of changed the perception of
both leonards and hearns careers?
leonard would of had 2 losses and then retired a year later
i can not see him holding the bargaining power to walk right into a
hagler match up after his long layoff
so how would their careers have changed?

Great question. There would have been a rematch.

If the rematch was at 147 Tommy might be too weak...though he wouldn't have come in at 145...

And Leonard would have turned the screw earlier...though that might have played into Tommy's hands.

I'd say it's pretty much always a 50-50 fight.

My guess is that Ray would not have retired until he'd secured a victory over Tommy.

Remember there was also controversy that Ray wasn't given enough 10-8 rounds so even if he had retired someone, somewhere, on someone's payroll would have written a piece saying how Ray really won the first fight (whcih he did in real life - anyone's head starting to split???)

Ezzard wrote:Great question. There would have been a rematch.

If the rematch was at 147 Tommy might be too weak...though he wouldn't have come in at 145...

And Leonard would have turned the screw earlier...though that might have played into Tommy's hands.

I'd say it's pretty much always a 50-50 fight.

My guess is that Ray would not have retired until he'd secured a victory over Tommy.

Remember there was also controversy that Ray wasn't given enough 10-8 rounds so even if he had retired someone, somewhere, on someone's payroll would have written a piece saying how Ray really won the first fight (whcih he did in real life - anyone's head starting to split???)

i have said on here a few times
if the internet was around then.we would of talked crap about sugar ray robinson.

now my view of the hearns leonard legacy
hearns wins fight 1 by a comfortable margin
remember after 12 rounds hearns had a 4,5,and 6 point advantage

a rematch takes place as leonards last fight before his retirement from retina
surgery
hearns now would be a large betting favorite over the 2 loss leonard
hearns wins this time in a more contreversial fight
by a thin majority or unanimous decision.
mainly because of hearns new found popularity and being the odds on favorite.

leonard retires after the eye surgery.makes his first comeback bout against kevin howard.
as leonard said after the howard fight as of now i am retired
he would admit that he just doesn't have it anymore

leonard stays retired working as a fight commentator
and becomes more of a footnote in history than an all time great

ok don't scream blasphemy guys.this is just an alternate reallity

I don’t see Ray losing a close decision when (1) he already lost the first fight and (2) there would be even more money on the table for a rubber match…

Also, Ray Leonard was a true competitor. If he lost once to Tommy you can be sure he’d be totally gunning for him in the rematch. Like I said, that might play into Hearns’ hands… But I think they are 50-50…

Ray might have fought a Duran…Pryor…or Cuevas after the first Hearns fight…in order to get a decent pay out without too much risk.

Ezzard wrote:I don’t see Ray losing a close decision when (1) he already lost the first fight and (2) there would be even more money on the table for a rubber match…

Also, Ray Leonard was a true competitor. If he lost once to Tommy you can be sure he’d be totally gunning for him in the rematch. Like I said, that might play into Hearns’ hands… But I think they are 50-50…

Ray might have fought a Duran…Pryor…or Cuevas after the first Hearns fight…in order to get a decent pay out without too much risk.

you could very well be right
but i am just trying to throw out a few wild ideas as
to how this could change history

hearns if following my scenario would of moved up to jr.middle beating benitez,moore and then duran
would of only had hagler left.
this means he would ofaced hagler a year or 2 earlier then he did
now this creates another variation where hagler/hearns could of been 2 or 3 fights

remember the doctor nearly stopped the fight due to haglers cut.
so if hearns would of got the stoppage again how would this change reallity?




damn i am giving hearns a ton of breaks aren't i?

MEISINGER wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I don’t see Ray losing a close decision when (1) he already lost the first fight and (2) there would be even more money on the table for a rubber match…

Also, Ray Leonard was a true competitor. If he lost once to Tommy you can be sure he’d be totally gunning for him in the rematch. Like I said, that might play into Hearns’ hands… But I think they are 50-50…

Ray might have fought a Duran…Pryor…or Cuevas after the first Hearns fight…in order to get a decent pay out without too much risk.

you could very well be right
but i am just trying to throw out a few wild ideas as
to how this could change history

hearns if following my scenario would of moved up to jr.middle beating benitez,moore and then duran
would of only had hagler left.
this means he would ofaced hagler a year or 2 earlier then he did
now this creates another variation where hagler/hearns could of been 2 or 3 fights

remember the doctor nearly stopped the fight due to haglers cut.
so if hearns would of got the stoppage again how would this change reallity?




damn i am giving hearns a ton of breaks aren't i?

Indeed you are.
I had Hearns up 124-122 through 13.

Rover wrote:

MEISINGER wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I don’t see Ray losing a close decision when (1) he already lost the first fight and (2) there would be even more money on the table for a rubber match…

Also, Ray Leonard was a true competitor. If he lost once to Tommy you can be sure he’d be totally gunning for him in the rematch. Like I said, that might play into Hearns’ hands… But I think they are 50-50…

Ray might have fought a Duran…Pryor…or Cuevas after the first Hearns fight…in order to get a decent pay out without too much risk.

you could very well be right
but i am just trying to throw out a few wild ideas as
to how this could change history

hearns if following my scenario would of moved up to jr.middle beating benitez,moore and then duran
would of only had hagler left.
this means he would ofaced hagler a year or 2 earlier then he did
now this creates another variation where hagler/hearns could of been 2 or 3 fights

remember the doctor nearly stopped the fight due to haglers cut.
so if hearns would of got the stoppage again how would this change reallity?




damn i am giving hearns a ton of breaks aren't i?

Indeed you are.
I had Hearns up 124-122 through 13.

i had him up 3 rounds myself
great fight

Hearns would have had a good chance of beating Hagler on the night Marvin fought Leonard. Lesser so when he fought Mugabi… I think any time before that and he loses.

Then again the broken right hand…on any other night…

Even so…I think Marv gets him pre-Mugabi…

MEISINGER wrote:just finished watching this fight for what feels like the millionth
time.
i am kind of curious as to what your scorecards looked like

the 3 judges had hearns ahead at the stoppage by 2,3 and 4 points
including the 13th round being a 10-8 round for leonard.

being that tommy was a 7-5 favorite in this fight and undefeated
if this fight was a 12 rounder.how would this of changed the perception of
both leonards and hearns careers?
leonard would of had 2 losses and then retired a year later
i can not see him holding the bargaining power to walk right into a
hagler match up after his long layoff
so how would their careers have changed?

Or Dundee tells Ray your blowing it kid earlier n we get same results

Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

elmersalsa wrote:Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

Hutchings?

And Hearns didn't stop Benitez.

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

Hutchings?

And Hearns didn't stop Benitez.

He broke his hand. He did not had problems with Benitez like Ray had.

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

Hutchings?

And Hearns didn't stop Benitez.

its been a long time since you watched that fight
hearns dominated

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

Hutchings?

And Hearns didn't stop Benitez.

He broke his hand. He did not had problems with Benitez like Ray had.

Leonard had the fight won going into the 15th round.
Hearns didn't stop Benitez. Fact, old sport. Leonard did.

MEISINGER wrote:

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, I had Hearns winning by 4 points before the 13th round.

A rematch at 147 would be a great fight. It could go either way.

But at 154lbs, NO WAY. Hearns was a complete monster. A beast. Look what he did to the great Roberto Duran and Fred Hutchings? Those were some awful beatings! Hearns at that weight class was stronger and hit harder. Leonard was at the Hutchings' fight and I think he did not want none of Hearns then. In fact, Hearns beat the great Wilfred Benitez better than Leonard did.

Hutchings?

And Hearns didn't stop Benitez.

its been a long time since you watched that fight
hearns dominated

Hearns clearly beat Benitez.
So did Leonard--a Benitez of three years beforehand and at a lower division.