Page 1 of 2

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 03 Feb 2013, 18:21
by Rover
It was created for more sanctioning fees. Boxing was just fine without super bantam throughout its history. I wish they'd have kept the original eight.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 03 Feb 2013, 20:30
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Mr. Rover,

Yes, the #1 reason,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sanctioning Fee's.

But 'two' very good boxers Rigoberto Riasco (Panama) and Royal Kobayashi (Japan) had been blasted out and
destroyed by WBA Champion - Alexis Arguello in 1975.

And with WBC Champion - David Kotey (muscular machine) and Danny Lopez (punching machine) as the
'Top' WBC fighters, there was virtually no chance for the other 'smallish' 126 lb. fighters to compete.

The first 'WBC-sanctioned' Super-Bantamweight fight was held on February 15, 1976 - in Feria de David,
Chiriqui, Panama.

It was between the #2 WBC - Royal Kobayashi (Japan) 19-1-0 (16 KO's) vs. #3 WBC - Elmer Salcedo (Panama) 14-2-1 (12 KO's).

The winner of this 10-Round bout was to be positioned as one of the Challengers for the 'vacant' WBC Championship.

Royal Kobayashi was the 'Favorite', but got 'upset'. Elmer Salcedo boxed like a schooled technican, and won a solid
10-Round Decision - which knocked Kobayashi out of a Championship bout.
I have no sympathy for a situation where fighters can't beat the top dogs. I don't think that's a justification for creating a new weight class.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 04 Feb 2013, 02:35
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:February 15, 1976

Rigoberto Riasco was supposed to face the 'winner' of the #2 WBC Royal Kobayashi vs. #3 WBC Elmer Salcedo bout,
a fight which everybody 'expected' Royal Kobayashi to win over the 'local' Panamanian.

But, Elmer Slacedo (won), and the WBC didn't want 'two' Panamanian's fighting for the 'New' vacant Championship. So they
positioned another Japanese fighter Philip 'Wariunge' Nakayama as the fighter to face Rigoberto Riasco.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 3, 1976

Philip 'Wariunge' Nakayama was the Japanese Super Bantamweight Champion. 'Wariunge' was a Kenyan, who
was living in Japan. The 31 year-old Kenyan, was a fantastic amateur who won over 300-bouts, including competing
in '3' Olympics (1964, 1968 and 1972).

But as a professional, he got off to a rough start, by going 4-4-1 in his first '9-Bouts', before turning it around
by winning '7-Straight'. With a record of 11-4-1 (5 KO's), 'Wariunge' was ranked as the #4 WBC Super-Bantamweight,
but moved up as Royal Kobayashi had lost.
Too bad for Elmer. The WBA didn't mind at all when two Panamanians went at it.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 04 Feb 2013, 15:13
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:The reason,

Japanese Television paid the fight purse's for the WBC Super Bantamweight Championship, providing
a Japanese fighter was one of the participants in the bout.

Enter - Philip 'Wariunge' Nakayama - a popular fighter in Japan.

Step aside - Emilio Salcedo.
So the Japanese did all that for a Kenyan.
:lol:

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 04 Feb 2013, 16:14
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Philip Waruinge (Kenya), during the 1972 Olympics hooked up with Japanese Fight Manager/Trainer - Yoshinori Takahashi
who asked him to come to Japan after the Olympics. Philip finally got out of Kenya in mid-1973 and finally arrived in Japan.

Soon thereafter, he turned professional. Despite his advanced age (28 1/2), he was expected to bring Japan a
World Championship, as he was a terrific boxer, who many claim was Kenya's 'Greatest Boxer', which inlcuded
over '300' amateur wins, and numerous Championships.

Philip became a stable-mate of Royal Kobayashi, with Yoshinori in charge. Despite not being Japanese, Philip became an
Osaka Japan resident in 1973, and was soon a Hero after winning the Japanese Super Bantamweight Championship.

A Television Station in Osaka, Japan sponsored Philip, and broadcast all his bouts on Television. Unfortunately he could
not bring home with him the WBC Super Bantamweight Championship in April 1976.

Osaka Television put up $65,000 (U.S. Dollars) to get the WBC Super Bantamweight bout broadcast rights.
:TU:

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 14:22
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Rover,

Osaka Television, not only put up the fight purse bid of $65,000 for the rights to the Rigoberto Riasco vs. Philip Nakayama
bout, they also sent a film crew to Panama to cover Philip 'Waruinge' and his gym training sessions, as well as on the spot
interviews.

Osaka Televsion broadcast this back to Japan each night for one-week, prior to the Championship Bout. Osaka Television
covered all expenses. This coverage was also broadcast to Kenya in the few theatre's available.

This was a 'big deal' in Japan and Kenya.

Of the $65,000 Purse Bid, Rigoberto Riasco received only $26,000 and Philip 'Waruinge' got $21,000.

The WBC (Jose Sulaiman) pulled in a sanctioning fee of $18,000 (27% of the purse bid), which led the Boxing
Camps to complain of being 'ripped off'.

The Gimnasio Nuevo Arena 'live gate' receipts, which was an additional $72,000 (U.S. Dollars).
Rigoberto Riasco was supposed to received 15% ($10,800) of the 'live gate', and Philip 'Waruinge' 10% ($7200).
Sounds kind of like 24/7 (the coverage).

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 14:28
by Ambling Alp II
What a great idea it was to add a new weight class. Divided up the talent pool even more which meant less good matchups. Fighters that were a little big for bantamweight now did not battle featherweights.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 16:57
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Lots of good 122 lb. Fighters, from,

Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
South Korea
Central America
Mexico
The Philippines
Japan
Thailand
Pan Pacific

Featherweights too big...... :box:
Boxing survived throughout history without 122; the great fighters could've competed at feather.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 18:08
by giacomino
Have to say it would have been interesting to see Bazooka Gomez fight at 118 in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He beat Zarate and Pintor, but that was at 122. He also beat Davila, another excellent 118er at the time. Could have been some really good fights vs Zamora, Solis, Murata and of course, Jeff Chandler during that period. If he couldn't make 118, Gomez vs Danny Red Lopez would have been tremendous fun

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 18:33
by Rover
giacomino wrote:Have to say it would have been interesting to see Bazooka Gomez fight at 118 in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He beat Zarate and Pintor, but that was at 122. He also beat Davila, another excellent 118er at the time. Could have been some really good fights vs Zamora, Solis, Murata and of course, Jeff Chandler during that period. If he couldn't make 118, Gomez vs Danny Red Lopez would have been tremendous fun
Don't forget Pedroza.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 18:54
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:The WBC did a service for the boxers instituting the Division in early 1976,

Rigoberto Riasco, Royal Kobayashi and Dong-Kyun Yum were good starts for the Super Bantamweight Division.

And Wilfredo Gomez couldn't make 118 lbs. by mid-1976 anyway.
Look what 'Bazooka' did for the Division, he made it legitimate and a cornerstone for the WBC.
He could've gone up to feather, though. We didn't need minimumweight, light flyweight, super fly, super bantam, super middle and cruiser (divisions created in the 70s and 80s). At least with jr. lightweight, jr. welter and jr. middle, they were around a bit longer, though they shouldn't have been created, either. Original eight for me.
Of course, given the fact that they are and will forever be a part of boxing, I won't denegrate the quality of fighters who fight in them. I just wish they hadn't been created.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 19:36
by giacomino
Rover wrote:
giacomino wrote:Have to say it would have been interesting to see Bazooka Gomez fight at 118 in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He beat Zarate and Pintor, but that was at 122. He also beat Davila, another excellent 118er at the time. Could have been some really good fights vs Zamora, Solis, Murata and of course, Jeff Chandler during that period. If he couldn't make 118, Gomez vs Danny Red Lopez would have been tremendous fun
Don't forget Pedroza.
If Gomez fought Pedroza, somebody would have gone home with their testicles shoved through their backsides because those two could ball-bust with the best of them. I always laugh when I see people bitch about Ward's tactics. Pedroza made Ward look like Miss Manners

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 19:55
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:* 122 lbs. to 126 lbs. - not as easy as it sounds.

Thats a difficult 'Road to Hoe'

Alexis Arguello WBA Featherweight Champion (11/74 thru 6/76)

A) The 'young teenager' either 18 or 19 - Wilfredo Gomez ain't doing that number, not with his protective management.

B) And after Alexis, the WBA (Panama-based) had the Featherweight Title reserved for one of their own 'Rafael Ortega' (1/77 thru 12/77)

C) The Spaniard - Cecilio Lastra scored an upset (12/17/77), but his WBA Title was short lived.

D) Eusebio Pedroza (Panama-based) was right there to capture the WBA Championship (July 1978)

Conclusion - Wilfredo Gomez isn't getting anywhere near the WBA Featherweight Championship, not during
1974 thru 1985.
Pedroza fought in PR, so I don't see why Gomez couldn't have landed a shot.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 19:56
by Rover
giacomino wrote:
Rover wrote:
giacomino wrote:Have to say it would have been interesting to see Bazooka Gomez fight at 118 in the late 1970s and early 1980s. He beat Zarate and Pintor, but that was at 122. He also beat Davila, another excellent 118er at the time. Could have been some really good fights vs Zamora, Solis, Murata and of course, Jeff Chandler during that period. If he couldn't make 118, Gomez vs Danny Red Lopez would have been tremendous fun
Don't forget Pedroza.
If Gomez fought Pedroza, somebody would have gone home with their testicles shoved through their backsides because those two could ball-bust with the best of them. I always laugh when I see people bitch about Ward's tactics. Pedroza made Ward look like Miss Manners
:lol:

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 23:09
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Wilfredo Gomez never went after Eusebio Pedroza,

Though he could have challenged him several times.

Smart move, as Eusebio would have won.
Agree Eusebio would've won.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 06 Feb 2013, 23:37
by giacomino
Not sure either way. Surely would have been an ugly fight but it wouldn't have surprised me to see Gomez win a decision, depending on the location. Pedroza was plenty crafty, but he had a lot of close decisions go his way. Not sure Gomez wouldn't have outworked him. If the fight were in PR, no way Pedroza beats him, IMO

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 07 Feb 2013, 01:22
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:August 1982 was 'open' for Wilfredo Gomez if he wanted Eusebio Pedroza.

Would have been a 'prime' time for both.

* Eusebio Pedroza ~ 33-3-1 (23 KO's) ~ Age 26 1/2 ~ Height 5' 8 1/2" ~ Reach 68 1/2"
vs.
* Wilfredo Gomez ~ 36-1-1 (36 KO's) ~ Age 25 1/2 ~ Height 5' 5 1/2" ~ Reach 67"

I could see Eusebio getting floored early, and rocked a few times. But Eusebio would have made
Wilfredo work, and burn up alot of energy thru the first 8-Rounds.

Have Eusebio taking over in Round 9, and hammering Wilfredo with this inside uppercuts. Wilfredo
tended to swell up bad after getting hit in the face, and by the end of the 12th Round, he will be
looking out of swollen eyes. See the fight stopped by a TKO 14, with Wilfredo unable to see out
of closed eyes.

'Side Bar' --------Alice Cooper turned 65 today............God Bless Us All... :oo

I saw the 'Alice Cooper Band' play in 1971............ :o
Wasn't Pedroza cut in a fight in July against Alpizar?

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 07 Feb 2013, 16:22
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Rover,

I was just using a calculated guess on when they could have fought, when both fighters were in their prime.

Mid-1982 looked to be the best slot for both.
Gotcha. I just remembered what happened that July.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 07 Feb 2013, 16:23
by Rover
Il Duce wrote:Wednesday Night - November 24, 1976

JangChung Gymnasium - Seoul, South Korea

Attendance; 7200

WBC Super Bantamweight Champion

** Kazou 'Royal' Kobayashi ~ 21-2-0 (17 KO's)
Vs.
#1 WBC - Dong-Kyun Yum ~ 46-2-6 (20 KO's)

Royal Kobayashi, only 45-Days after winning the WBC Championship by stopping [KO 8} Champion - Rigoberto Riasco,
is forced to defend his Crown immediately, to comply with the demands set forth by the WBC (Jose Sulaiman).

The Challenger - Dong-Kyun Yum who was involved in the 'highly controversial' and scandalous bout with then Champion
Rigoberto Riasco back on August 1, 1976 in Busan, South Korea is back as the Challenger.

Though this bout was originally scheduled to be held in Mexico City, it has been switched to Seoul, South Korea - as
a larger fight purse bid was offered. The WBC has all of its Asian Representatives, as well as Jose Sulaiman in attendance
to make sure everything is on the 'up-and-up'. The Champion - Royal Kobayashi has agreed to the bout in Seoul,
providing that 'two WBC-approved' Japanese Officials are named as a Judge and Referee.

Due to the previous circumstances, both boxers will split the 'Total Fight Purse' of $160,000 ($80,000 each).

The Fight,

It doesn't take long, before Dong-Kyun Yum dumps the Champion on the canvas in the 1st-Round, by landing
with a hard straight left hand.

The Champion is not hurt, and regains his feet, an returns to a stalking attack. Round after Round, the Champion
chases while Dong-Kyun stays on his bicycle, by jabbing and moving. The 26 year-old Challenger is smart, and
stays at a distance, to avoid Kobayashi's hard left hooks and crushing right hands. Though the Champion is
the aggressor, he cannot match Dong-Kyun's speed and footwork.

The Challenger continues to peck away with quick left hands, and moves out of harm's way before Kobayashi
can deliver. By Round 9, the bout has turned into a 'chess-match', as each combatant neutralizes the other.

Rounds 10 thru 15 follow the same pattern, with the Challenger staying just outside Kobayashi's hard punches
while fighting in a controlled defensive mode.

Scorecards;
* Referee - Yuskaka Yushida.......146-146 (Even)
* Judge - Ken Morita..................148-146 (Dong-Kyun Yum)
* Judge - Il-Choi........................148-144 (Dong-Kyun Yum)

Dong-Kyun Yum wins the WBC Super Bantamweight Championship by a 15-Round Majority Decision.

The UPI scored the bout 146-145 for Dong-Kyun Yum, but had the bout 'Even' in Rounds (4-4-7), and scored
Round 1 {10-8} for the Challenger, which was the difference in the bout.
:TU:

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 09 Feb 2013, 19:14
by Ambling Alp II
Rover wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Lots of good 122 lb. Fighters, from,

Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
South Korea
Central America
Mexico
The Philippines
Japan
Thailand
Pan Pacific

Featherweights too big...... :box:
Boxing survived throughout history without 122; the great fighters could've competed at feather.
Amen. Totally unnecessary weight class. We don't need weight classes that are 4 pounds apart.
All it does it create more "champions".
If you are a little to big for 118, you can lose a little weight and make 118. If you just under 126, you should still be able to compete against someone who is naturally their best at 126.
Heavyweight fights rountinely consist of one fighter weight 20 or more pounds than his opponent. Nor reason why fighters in lower weight classes can't fight opponents that are naturally 3 or 4 pounds bigger than them.

The more weight classes you have, the less great matchups you are going to have. It is that simple.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 11 Feb 2013, 14:50
by Ambling Alp II
I understand the arguement that 4 pounds is a bigger difference between two fighters that weighs 118 and 122 and two fighters that weigh over 200 pounds.
However, it still is relatively small amount of weight.

Even if you buy into that agruement that it isn't too small, contradicts your are going to prefer statement that you prefer weight classes of 105-110-115-120-125-130-135. -The same difference between weight classes. (It wouldn't be fair to the fighters at 110 because 5 pounds would be a much bigger difference than 5 pounds at 135.

It actually made sense to have slightly bigger differences in weight classes as you go up. (ie 6 pounds between 112 and 118, 8 pounds between 118 and 126, 9 pounds between 126 and 135. etc.

There just isn't enough talent is in the very low weight classes because there are so few fighters in those ranges. There are very few fighters between 105 and 108.

It was much better in the old days where you had 112, 118,126, 135.

Who are we to say no to the "great fighters " who want more weight clases? Fans who care(d) about the sport. It's not surprising that the fighters want more weight classes. That way there are more paper titles and it is much easier to win one.

Meanwhile the fans get cheated out out of great matchups. Take out half of the current weight classes, and each individual weight class would have roughly twice as many good fighters and roughly twice as many good fights.

Re: December 1975 - WBC, To Create A New 122 lb. Division.

Posted: 11 Feb 2013, 15:30
by Rover
Ambling Alp II wrote:I understand the arguement that 4 pounds is a bigger difference between two fighters that weighs 118 and 122 and two fighters that weigh over 200 pounds.
However, it still is relatively small amount of weight.

Even if you buy into that agruement that it isn't too small, contradicts your are going to prefer statement that you prefer weight classes of 105-110-115-120-125-130-135. -The same difference between weight classes. (It wouldn't be fair to the fighters at 110 because 5 pounds would be a much bigger difference than 5 pounds at 135.

It actually made sense to have slightly bigger differences in weight classes as you go up. (ie 6 pounds between 112 and 118, 8 pounds between 118 and 126, 9 pounds between 126 and 135. etc.

There just isn't enough talent is in the very low weight classes because there are so few fighters in those ranges. There are very few fighters between 105 and 108.

It was much better in the old days where you had 112, 118,126, 135.

Who are we to say no to the "great fighters " who want more weight clases? Fans who care(d) about the sport. It's not surprising that the fighters want more weight classes. That way there are more paper titles and it is much easier to win one.

Meanwhile the fans get cheated out out of great matchups. Take out half of the current weight classes, and each individual weight class would have roughly twice as many good fighters and roughly twice as many good fights.
:TU: