BoxRec

A question for all

but not for the pros, unless they feel like sharing. Maybe it may reveal psychological traits they would like to keep to themselves.

as old as time needle pre-fight has helped sell it to an audience, which then converts into £££.

Now I know everyone is different in how they handle different types of emotions, but in general is a genuine dislike for an opponent a major distraction? or a great motivator?

Do you know of any stories or examples where real life needle has caused a fighter to lose focus, when ordinarily it wouldn't effect him?
Trainers/promotors would have a good feel for this also - How do they deal with it?

Animosity to this level is pretty seldom seen, but it must have happened.
Any experience, on the inside or as a fan - leading up to card or fight where you knew there was real history?

I am sure there are some good stories out there.
Hopefully all with a peaceful ending, a beer and a curry between all concerned...or maybe not...

As an aside..., we "know" Haye / Chisora was a work (surely it was) to sell the next fight, sadly it had severe consequences in terms of licensing etc. But were the shenanighans between DelBoy and Wladimir genuine? and if so, to what end?

Mate, I have been fighting for 21 years, I had the knack a long time ago, when I was young and successful, I was often referred to as 'a machine'. Not a machine in that I could clean up anyone ore beat any human opponent, machine described my emotions before and during the fight. I had none, or at least tried my utmost to supress them. No hatred, no admiration, no excitement etc. That is why I eventualy gave the game away for quite a while, no rush. Now I still try to keep on top of this, but I can't and now get that rush but am not nearly as successfull.

dberry wrote:Mate, I have been fighting for 21 years, I had the knack a long time ago, when I was young and successful, I was often referred to as 'a machine'. Not a machine in that I could clean up anyone ore beat any human opponent, machine described my emotions before and during the fight. I had none, or at least tried my utmost to supress them. No hatred, no admiration, no excitement etc. That is why I eventualy gave the game away for quite a while, no rush. Now I still try to keep on top of this, but I can't and now get that rush but am not nearly as successfull.

thanks for your candour dberry. I can't really relate to that personally,and I won't pretend to. But I get the idea, mainly from a very good friend of mine who was in an elite division of the forces. He has been to places I haven't even heard of and seen some real 'orrible things. If you met him, you wouldn't have a clue. He has no triggers to set off a deep depression/or anger. He tells me it is his gift, that he can turn that part of himself off and put all the distractions/fears/hate/angst or whatever in a box and lock it away for good. Some of his buddies can't do that. But I digress...

For you, if your oppo was obviously winding himself up pre-fight (maybe pre-opening bell or even in the build up to the day itself) did you have a wry smile to yourself (inwardly) and think "Gotcha!!" or was your discipline so great you didn't even see that?

Psychology in sport is really interesting

si7dog7 wrote:

dberry wrote:Mate, I have been fighting for 21 years, I had the knack a long time ago, when I was young and successful, I was often referred to as 'a machine'. Not a machine in that I could clean up anyone ore beat any human opponent, machine described my emotions before and during the fight. I had none, or at least tried my utmost to supress them. No hatred, no admiration, no excitement etc. That is why I eventualy gave the game away for quite a while, no rush. Now I still try to keep on top of this, but I can't and now get that rush but am not nearly as successfull.

thanks for your candour dberry. I can't really relate to that personally,and I won't pretend to. But I get the idea, mainly from a very good friend of mine who was in an elite division of the forces. He has been to places I haven't even heard of and seen some real 'orrible things. If you met him, you wouldn't have a clue. He has no triggers to set off a deep depression/or anger. He tells me it is his gift, that he can turn that part of himself off and put all the distractions/fears/hate/angst or whatever in a box and lock it away for good. Some of his buddies can't do that. But I digress...

For you, if your oppo was obviously winding himself up pre-fight (maybe pre-opening bell or even in the build up to the day itself) did you have a wry smile to yourself (inwardly) and think "Gotcha!!" or was your discipline so great you didn't even see that?

Psychology in sport is really interesting

I've some mates in the army, some that are in very special forces, a different mind set though, I can't begin to pretend that I'm up there with them, and I've suffered deep depression and lived most of my life in extreme anger. I've found that fighters, in general, have emotional issues and are often very vulnerable. Punches don't hurt nearly as much as words.
A simmilarity may be that the armed forces guys would have to take the 'human' factor from what they do, as successfull fighters must.
And yeah, if an opponent shows abnormal emotion before the fight then I know I've won on that level and it helps manipulate that side of the fight.

dberry wrote:Mate, I have been fighting for 21 years, I had the knack a long time ago, when I was young and successful, I was often referred to as 'a machine'. Not a machine in that I could clean up anyone ore beat any human opponent, machine described my emotions before and during the fight. I had none, or at least tried my utmost to supress them. No hatred, no admiration, no excitement etc. That is why I eventualy gave the game away for quite a while, no rush. Now I still try to keep on top of this, but I can't and now get that rush but am not nearly as successfull.

I was going to say before I read your last post that this must have affected you greatly in later life because you can't surpress emotion without it coming back to kick your ass in the future , I've learnt this through personal experience.

Hagler was the ultimate in hating his opponents, he used to build up and hatred towards all his foes, this is from Bob Arum .
'You know how fighters two, three years after they fight become friends,'' says Bob Arum, Hagler's promoter. ''Not Marvin. Believe me, Marvin Hagler still hates every one of his opponents. If [ Vito ] Antuofermo comes into the room, he won't talk to him. Duran? Forget it. [ Mustafa ] Hamsho, he can't stand. It's not for effect. With him, it carries over forever. If he sees Tommy Hearns, he won't go near Tommy. 'Get him out of my face. What the hell is he doing here?' 'Marvin, the fight's over.' 'The hell it's over.' ''

Old bones Ian wrote:Hagler was the ultimate in hating his opponents, he used to build up and hatred towards all his foes, this is from Bob Arum .
'You know how fighters two, three years after they fight become friends,'' says Bob Arum, Hagler's promoter. ''Not Marvin. Believe me, Marvin Hagler still hates every one of his opponents. If [ Vito ] Antuofermo comes into the room, he won't talk to him. Duran? Forget it. [ Mustafa ] Hamsho, he can't stand. It's not for effect. With him, it carries over forever. If he sees Tommy Hearns, he won't go near Tommy. 'Get him out of my face. What the hell is he doing here?' 'Marvin, the fight's over.' 'The hell it's over.' ''

thats right Ian, I can particularly remember the Minter build up. Some of the things said beforehand were downright disgraceful and we know what happened on the night. It wouldn't happen nowerdays we hope.
Regarding Hagler and Hearns, and one of the guys here will correct m if I am wrong, but I think Marvin must have mellowed a tadge. I am sure on Hearns v Leonard II he is quite vocal in his support for Tommy. or maybe that was incandescant hatred of Sugar Ray L
Maybe just me.

I believe that if a man makes you hate him, then he has one the fight. One must strategise with a clear, subjective mind. That is hard enough to achieve.

si7dog7 wrote:

Old bones Ian wrote:Hagler was the ultimate in hating his opponents, he used to build up and hatred towards all his foes, this is from Bob Arum .
'You know how fighters two, three years after they fight become friends,'' says Bob Arum, Hagler's promoter. ''Not Marvin. Believe me, Marvin Hagler still hates every one of his opponents. If [ Vito ] Antuofermo comes into the room, he won't talk to him. Duran? Forget it. [ Mustafa ] Hamsho, he can't stand. It's not for effect. With him, it carries over forever. If he sees Tommy Hearns, he won't go near Tommy. 'Get him out of my face. What the hell is he doing here?' 'Marvin, the fight's over.' 'The hell it's over.' ''

thats right Ian, I can particularly remember the Minter build up. Some of the things said beforehand were downright disgraceful and we know what happened on the night. It wouldn't happen nowerdays we hope.
Regarding Hagler and Hearns, and one of the guys here will correct m if I am wrong, but I think Marvin must have mellowed a tadge. I am sure on Hearns v Leonard II he is quite vocal in his support for Tommy. or maybe that was incandescant hatred of Sugar Ray L
Maybe just me.

right on both counts, I think

si7dog7 wrote:

Old bones Ian wrote:Hagler was the ultimate in hating his opponents, he used to build up and hatred towards all his foes, this is from Bob Arum .
'You know how fighters two, three years after they fight become friends,'' says Bob Arum, Hagler's promoter. ''Not Marvin. Believe me, Marvin Hagler still hates every one of his opponents. If [ Vito ] Antuofermo comes into the room, he won't talk to him. Duran? Forget it. [ Mustafa ] Hamsho, he can't stand. It's not for effect. With him, it carries over forever. If he sees Tommy Hearns, he won't go near Tommy. 'Get him out of my face. What the hell is he doing here?' 'Marvin, the fight's over.' 'The hell it's over.' ''

thats right Ian, I can particularly remember the Minter build up. Some of the things said beforehand were downright disgraceful and we know what happened on the night. It wouldn't happen nowerdays we hope.
Regarding Hagler and Hearns, and one of the guys here will correct m if I am wrong, but I think Marvin must have mellowed a tadge. I am sure on Hearns v Leonard II he is quite vocal in his support for Tommy. or maybe that was incandescant hatred of Sugar Ray L
Maybe just me.

I'm pretty sure he's mellowed alot towards Hearns. I read a piece recently on their classic fight. After the fight Tommy went to Marvin's dressing room to congratulate him on a great fight. Marvin said that this was a really classy gesture and he appreciated that.

In fact i've never heard anyone say anthing bad about Hearns after a fight. There's only been respect.

Read this article, goes into what Hagler used to get up to when training. I think the word to use is 'intense'

http://sanjivb.com/_site/archive/fighte ... /index.php

I remember the build up to the Benn v Watson fight and Nigel seemed to have a bit of hate towards Michael.

He certainly seemed worked up in his pre fight interviews.

Barerra and Morales had genuine disdain for each other did they not?

dberry wrote:

si7dog7 wrote:

dberry wrote:Mate, I have been fighting for 21 years, I had the knack a long time ago, when I was young and successful, I was often referred to as 'a machine'. Not a machine in that I could clean up anyone ore beat any human opponent, machine described my emotions before and during the fight. I had none, or at least tried my utmost to supress them. No hatred, no admiration, no excitement etc. That is why I eventualy gave the game away for quite a while, no rush. Now I still try to keep on top of this, but I can't and now get that rush but am not nearly as successfull.

thanks for your candour dberry. I can't really relate to that personally,and I won't pretend to. But I get the idea, mainly from a very good friend of mine who was in an elite division of the forces. He has been to places I haven't even heard of and seen some real 'orrible things. If you met him, you wouldn't have a clue. He has no triggers to set off a deep depression/or anger. He tells me it is his gift, that he can turn that part of himself off and put all the distractions/fears/hate/angst or whatever in a box and lock it away for good. Some of his buddies can't do that. But I digress...

For you, if your oppo was obviously winding himself up pre-fight (maybe pre-opening bell or even in the build up to the day itself) did you have a wry smile to yourself (inwardly) and think "Gotcha!!" or was your discipline so great you didn't even see that?

Psychology in sport is really interesting

I've some mates in the army, some that are in very special forces, a different mind set though, I can't begin to pretend that I'm up there with them, and I've suffered deep depression and lived most of my life in extreme anger. I've found that fighters, in general, have emotional issues and are often very vulnerable. Punches don't hurt nearly as much as words.
A simmilarity may be that the armed forces guys would have to take the 'human' factor from what they do, as successfull fighters must.
And yeah, if an opponent shows abnormal emotion before the fight then I know I've won on that level and it helps manipulate that side of the fight.

I think that to be an elite special forces guy you have to be able to control your emotions. I dont think you would be recruited if you couldnt to be honest. Mindset is probably the most important thing Id imagine, even over their physical gifts.

I guess that is the big difference, in he army you must be able to control your emotions, in the special forces you almost have to extiguish any emotion. Fighters have to try and reign in the emotions that lead there in the first place.

Old bones Ian wrote:Read this article, goes into what Hagler used to get up to when training. I think the word to use is 'intense'

http://sanjivb.com/_site/archive/fighte ... /index.php

excellent article
"When asked whom Hagler should fight next, one wit said “Russia.”
very good

dberry wrote:I believe that if a man makes you hate him, then he has one the fight. One must strategise with a clear, subjective mind. That is hard enough to achieve.

kinda backfired on Ali in his fights vs frazier tho eh....

another one where the hate bounced back was ODLH vs ricardo mayorga....shiiiit ANYone vs mayorga....he never exactly encouraged respect from his opponents....

rahman vs lewis....rahman's gay taunts towards lennox etc...

wayne alexander vs takaloo....tak got under alexanders skin....leading to one of the most spectacular knockouts i've seen live...

Very interesting thread

Greg Haugen didn't like Vinny Pazienza all that much (first 2 bouts in any case) and I think I remember that the Haugen v Mancini bout had a grudge element. Chavez Snr took a dislike to Haugen and dished out a real beating.

I've not seen many boxers attack with as much relish as Kirakosyan did to Carl Johansson in their 2nd bout; he really seemed to enjoy it.

Old bones Ian wrote:Hagler was the ultimate in hating his opponents, he used to build up and hatred towards all his foes, this is from Bob Arum .
'You know how fighters two, three years after they fight become friends,'' says Bob Arum, Hagler's promoter. ''Not Marvin. Believe me, Marvin Hagler still hates every one of his opponents. If [ Vito ] Antuofermo comes into the room, he won't talk to him. Duran? Forget it. [ Mustafa ] Hamsho, he can't stand. It's not for effect. With him, it carries over forever. If he sees Tommy Hearns, he won't go near Tommy. 'Get him out of my face. What the hell is he doing here?' 'Marvin, the fight's over.' 'The hell it's over.' ''

Antuofermo was in the Hagler entourage that went into the ring with Hagler against Minter at Wembley, and was smashed over the head by a glass bottle. Vito turned round and wiped his assailant out

si7dog7 wrote:

Old bones Ian wrote:Read this article, goes into what Hagler used to get up to when training. I think the word to use is 'intense'

http://sanjivb.com/_site/archive/fighte ... /index.php

excellent article
"When asked whom Hagler should fight next, one wit said “Russia.”
very good

x2 that was very enjoyable read