BoxRec

As much as i love,admire and respect Gennady,Austin,Mikkel,Alexander etc are we just accepting them as World champs even though their only paper titlists.
Mikkel Kesslers fight with IBF champ Carl Froch is NOT a unification bout nor is Austin Trouts battle with WBC king Saul Alvarez,sorry to start this whole debate again and i,ll understand if nobody replies its just that i get so frustrated,im just trying to cling on what little values boxing has left,am i fighting a losing battle

There the best fighters out there at the moment having the best fights.
Sanctioning bodies and belts galore mean eff all .I just wanna see good fights and worthy winners.

handsofstone wrote:As much as i love,admire and respect Gennady,Austin,Mikkel,Alexander etc are we just accepting them as World champs even though their only paper titlists.
Mikkel Kesslers fight with IBF champ Carl Froch is NOT a unification bout nor is Austin Trouts battle with WBC king Saul Alvarez,sorry to start this whole debate again and i,ll understand if nobody replies its just that i get so frustrated,im just trying to cling on what little values boxing has left,am i fighting a losing battle

You should take a look at these rankings - http://www.tbrb.org/

The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.

Jack B wrote:

handsofstone wrote:As much as i love,admire and respect Gennady,Austin,Mikkel,Alexander etc are we just accepting them as World champs even though their only paper titlists.
Mikkel Kesslers fight with IBF champ Carl Froch is NOT a unification bout nor is Austin Trouts battle with WBC king Saul Alvarez,sorry to start this whole debate again and i,ll understand if nobody replies its just that i get so frustrated,im just trying to cling on what little values boxing has left,am i fighting a losing battle

You should take a look at these rankings - http://www.tbrb.org/

The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.

Trout v Alvarez is a blinder as is Froch vKessler i pay to watch thats support.
If your rankings have better bouts than those 2 show me if not dont question my support mate.

Golovkin is a 'proper' world champion now.

When Sturm was WBA Super Champion Golovkin was WBA world champion

When Sturm fought Geale the winner had to fight Golovkin. Geale fought Mundine and was stripped of the WBA belt and Golovkin lefts as the WBA Champ.

The WBA stuff is all BS though I can consider Trout a World Champion after his fight against Cotto he deserves it. Floyd took the WBA belt from Cotto last year but has no intention of defending it it seems.

TJ77 wrote:

Jack B wrote:

handsofstone wrote:As much as i love,admire and respect Gennady,Austin,Mikkel,Alexander etc are we just accepting them as World champs even though their only paper titlists.
Mikkel Kesslers fight with IBF champ Carl Froch is NOT a unification bout nor is Austin Trouts battle with WBC king Saul Alvarez,sorry to start this whole debate again and i,ll understand if nobody replies its just that i get so frustrated,im just trying to cling on what little values boxing has left,am i fighting a losing battle

You should take a look at these rankings - http://www.tbrb.org/

The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.

Trout v Alvarez is a blinder as is Froch vKessler i pay to watch thats support.
If your rankings have better bouts than those 2 show me if not dont question my support mate.

When did I say that I was 'questioning your support'?

Of course, they're both awesome fights. The point the I was trying to reinforce (as was handsofstone by the looks of it) is that the titles they are being fought for are a nonsense, Froch-Kessler in particular. How can anybody legitimately call that fight a 'world championship unification' when Andre Ward has beaten both men and is the genuine world champion?! Kessler's claims to be a world champion are particularly nonsensical when you consider Ward has a higher rated title from the same organisation.

Quite rightly, you want to watch them both because they're great fights. But that doesn't excuse the sanctioning body bullshit that has slowly eroded the idea of being a world champion from being the pinnacle of the sport to practically worthless.

to above
Yeah absolutely nothing wrong with the boxers mentioned and the Froch/Kessler and Alvarez/Trout fights are up there with the most competitive match ups in years and i dont mind there being 4 titlists in each division,infact i quite like it,its the Regular,Intercontinental,International,Silver,Diamond belts etc that rile me,your better of making your own mind up,we cant be any worse or bias than the WBA,WBC,WBO and IBF,lets not forget IBO,IBA,IBC,WBU,WBB,WBF etc although im pretty sure some of them are now defunct,we,re pissin in the wind.
Someone above mentioned GGG was elevated to Super champ after Daniel Geale was stripped,infact Golovkin is still regular champ and the Super title remains vacant

It's all about the two fighters for me, titles don't come into it IMO anymore !

jessi wrote:It's all about the two fighters for me, titles don't come into it IMO anymore !

Yeah unfortunately i agree with you there mate,its just a shame that they vultures(Governing bodies) have took the shine of a world championship belt

handsofstone wrote:

jessi wrote:It's all about the two fighters for me, titles don't come into it IMO anymore !

Yeah unfortunately i agree with you there mate,its just a shame that they vultures(Governing bodies) have took the shine of a world championship belt

It's a shame it's got to that point. Boxing is the only sport I can think of where winning something means so little.

Imagine football without the Champions League and World Cup. Cricket without The Ashes. Tennis without Wimbledon.

Winning something, i.e. the World Championship, should be meaningful. It should be important. And I think the lack of importance has a huge negative impact on the sport. Maybe not for guys like us, on the forums - the hardcore. But it certainly loses appeal to the casual fan and that is to the sport's long term detriment.

And I fear it's only getting worse.

^^^ good post, sad but true

jessi wrote:^^^ good post, sad but true

X2

@JackB The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.
This comment made me think you were questioning my support as it was posted directly after my post.
If i was wrong to conclude that i apologise.What did you mean by it ?

TJ77 wrote:@JackB The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.
This comment made me think you were questioning my support as it was posted directly after my post.
If i was wrong to conclude that i apologise.What did you mean by it ?

Hi mate - I was actually replying the handsofstone's original comment about all the meaningless titles etc.

My link was to the TBRB - (if you've not heard of them before) they're a non-profit organisation that has been set up by a group of independent journalists, historians etc. to try to restore some sense to the mess. They produce unbiased rankings and recognise one champion per division. They set up as a direct result of The Ring changing their championship policy (and becoming more like a sanctioning body by the day).

The only reason I said people should support them is because I think it is a good idea and if everybody in the boxing community started supporting them, they may gain some leverage/legitimacy to rival and, in a dream world, replace the alphabet soup state we currently have.

Jack B wrote:

TJ77 wrote:@JackB The best we have out there at the moment - anybody who likes the sport should try supporting it.
This comment made me think you were questioning my support as it was posted directly after my post.
If i was wrong to conclude that i apologise.What did you mean by it ?

Hi mate - I was actually replying the handsofstone's original comment about all the meaningless titles etc.

My link was to the TBRB - (if you've not heard of them before) they're a non-profit organisation that has been set up by a group of independent journalists, historians etc. to try to restore some sense to the mess. They produce unbiased rankings and recognise one champion per division. They set up as a direct result of The Ring changing their championship policy (and becoming more like a sanctioning body by the day).

The only reason I said people should support them is because I think it is a good idea and if everybody in the boxing community started supporting them, they may gain some leverage/legitimacy to rival and, in a dream world, replace the alphabet soup state we currently have.

the problem is, they are just adding to the problem by effectively giving yet another set of opinions in an already over crowded market
i appreciate what they are trying to do, it's what ring have been trying to do for years.
it's all well and good deciding ring don't have authority on this matter now and setting a new body up, but what happens when the boxing public and media start to question the legitimacy of TBRB 10 years down the line? do we get yet another set of opinions by another set of experts.
we have 4 major (and many minor) governing bodies.
then you have these transcendant overseers like ring trying to emalgamate all opinions and rating into one over all system.
now, we have another body trying to do the same thing, what happens when we end up with 4 major (and many minor) overseeing ranking systems with widely differing opinions and ratings, do we need an even higher level of assement to amalgamate those into one system.
it's fornicating nonsense!

this thread is fine, and what people are saying is spot on, but it's hardly groundbreaking stuff, the world knows that the alphabet titles are a nonsense, you don't even have to be a die hard boxing fan to know that the set up is rotten to the core. and i'm afraid another organisation throwing their hat in the ring is going to make absolutely no difference, as noble as the sentiment may be.

the only way to sort it would be to rid ourselves of the various governing bodies and have one and only one boxing board, to take the conflict out of it.
thats never going to happen
we also need the tv stations and promtions companies to stop getting in the way of the best fights happening, stop protecting "world champions" and selling us duff shows and kiddy on title fights
but thats never going to happen

Unfortunately I don't think that everybody does know that the sanctioning bodies are rotten to the core. We all do, but we're keen boxing fans. The average punter who just reads the odd story in the tabloids and watches a few big fights a year doesn't have much of a clue. Otherwise, why would Sky Sports (a savvy business operation) try to market something that everybody thought was meaningless?

Also, I'd argue against the defeatist attitude that 'this is the way it is and nothing's going to change'. Well, that's definitely going to be the case if nobody tries to do anything about it. These things take time. At least the TBRB guys, however uphill a task they face, are attempting to improve the sport in some way.

Changing tack slightly, with all the various sanctioning bodies and their futures etc., I think the most interesting development on the horizon is the emergence of AIBA. Everything they are doing at the moment would suggest they are going to try to 'take on' the pro game (WSB, APB, removing headguards etc.). With the backing of the IOC etc. do you think they could have an impact?