BoxRec

Evander Holyfield.

Which version of Evander Holyfield would have beaten Lewis in your opinion?

Does any version of Holyfield have any chance of beating Lewis?

Im interested in your thoughts, i haven't posted here for a while, its good to be back.

Bump.

Assuming they're both meeting at their best, no I don't think Holyfield beats Lewis. However in 1991 or 1992, both were active and Holyfield was clearly at or near the peak of his career then while Lewis was yet to reach his, so you'd have to favor Holyfield if they'd met around that time I'd think.

Both on their best days though, I could see Holy making all the fights close with Lennox, but most likely only winning 1 out of 3.

gilgamesh wrote:Assuming they're both meeting at their best, no I don't think Holyfield beats Lewis. However in 1991 or 1992, both were active and Holyfield was clearly at or near the peak of his career then while Lewis was yet to reach his, so you'd have to favor Holyfield if they'd met around that time I'd think.

Both on their best days though, I could see Holy making all the fights close with Lennox, but most likely only winning 1 out of 3.

i agree

I think the Holyfield from Dokes up until Bowe 1 & 2 fights would have handled any lewis pretty clearly. He almost beat Lennox at his best when he was clearly past his.

I think Evander clearly showed that he had a chance of beating Lewis, but he would have to be called a clear underdog. He usaully had problems with guys who could jab, and Lennox had a very good jab and was good at tying up. In addition, Lewis was also a very good puncher, but I think Lennox would have always fought Holyfield cautiously.

But Holyfield at his counterpunching best would have been a very live underdog.

While I had Lewis winning both of the Holyfield fights, the second was close, which is a black mark against Lewis, considering that Holyfield was a good 6 years past his prime while Lewis was in the middle of his. I feel that Lewis underperformed in both Holyfield fights, and that performing to the best of his ability, he would have won both more convincingly.

Based on their performances, an early 90s Holyfield should beat a prime Lennox Lewis.

Interesting opinions. Cheers fellas.

The Great John L wrote:I think Evander clearly showed that he had a chance of beating Lewis, but he would have to be called a clear underdog. He usaully had problems with guys who could jab, and Lennox had a very good jab and was good at tying up. In addition, Lewis was also a very good puncher, but I think Lennox would have always fought Holyfield cautiously.

But Holyfield at his counterpunching best would have been a very live underdog.

Agreed.

Evander is a funny one. Certainly his form in Bowe 3 and Moorer 1 was poor, and most versions of Lewis should have stopped that Evander Holyfield. He was more lively in Bowe 1, but very light. He could have got more worn down against Lewis.

A peak 1989-1992 Holyfield has too much activity and movement for Lennox and would wear him out/win rounds on activity. People forget that Lewis had two opportunities vs Evander and didn't shine either time because that's the way Evander forced him to fight due to Evander's counter-punching abilities; Lewis had to fight more in a shell and fire lots of arm jabs without much authority on them.

dempseyfire wrote:A peak 1989-1992 Holyfield has too much activity and movement for Lennox and would wear him out/win rounds on activity. People forget that Lewis had two opportunities vs Evander and didn't shine either time because that's the way Evander forced him to fight due to Evander's counter-punching abilities; Lewis had to fight more in a shell and fire lots of arm jabs without much authority on them.

The Holyfield in Lewis 2 wasn't a million miles away from a peak performance.

I think Holyfield's "activity" as a HW is over-rated. While he was a volume puncher early in his career by the time he established himself as a HW his volume punching was spotty at best. He was notorious for taking rounds off, often times several rounds in a row as can be seen against Foreman and even the Bowe fights. Everyone remembers the war against Dokes when he outlasted the past it drug addled Dokes with volume power punching but they also tend forget when Evander would doze off in fights which was quite common. The Dokes fight was also pretty early in his career, and I could see that version getting careless and end up looking up at the lights against the sharp shooting Lewis of his prime.

Holyfield stopping Lewis is certainly a possibility, but it seems more likely from a good counter shot and then a follow-up barrage than a Frazier'esque type pounding. With some early career exceptions, the HW Hollyfield was not a high output punching machine. Of course I’d say that’s in comparison to a guy like Frazier who was almost super-human. There was nothing wrong with Holys punch output, I just don’t think he was the non-stop power punching machine some seem to recall.

If you combine the volume punching ability of the early Holyfield with the more cautious and better defense and counterpunching of the more vintage Holyfield you would have had a guy that was nearly unbeatable, but that fighter never existed. Kind of like trying to envision the offensive prowess of the younger Lewis combined with the improved defense and uppercut of the older Lewis. That guy never existed either.

The Great John L wrote:I think Holyfield's "activity" as a HW is over-rated. While he was a volume puncher early in his career by the time he established himself as a HW his volume punching was spotty at best. He was notorious for taking rounds off, often times several rounds in a row as can be seen against Foreman and even the Bowe fights. Everyone remembers the war against Dokes when he outlasted the past it drug addled Dokes with volume power punching but they also tend forget when Evander would doze off in fights which was quite common. The Dokes fight was also pretty early in his career, and I could see that version getting careless and end up looking up at the lights against the sharp shooting Lewis of his prime.

Holyfield stopping Lewis is certainly a possibility, but it seems more likely from a good counter shot and then a follow-up barrage than a Frazier'esque type pounding. With some early career exceptions, the HW Hollyfield was not a high output punching machine. Of course I’d say that’s in comparison to a guy like Frazier who was almost super-human. There was nothing wrong with Holys punch output, I just don’t think he was the non-stop power punching machine some seem to recall.

If you combine the volume punching ability of the early Holyfield with the more cautious and better defense and counterpunching of the more vintage Holyfield you would have had a guy that was nearly unbeatable, but that fighter never existed. Kind of like trying to envision the offensive prowess of the younger Lewis combined with the improved defense and uppercut of the older Lewis. That guy never existed either.

Holyfield was never Joe Frazier in terms of work-rate at HW, but compared to the other HWs of the 90s (including Lewis) he was Bugs Bunny at his peak. Comparing his punch output vs Dokes, Foreman, Bowe, Douglas to the guy who fought Bean, Lewis, Ruiz is like night and day. Was Evander better defensively in his late 30s? Not really; he was already showing dulled reflexes from all of the wars he'd been in and at his peak kept on his toes consistently and was always showing movement. Better counter-puncher? I don't see that at all. He was a noted counter-puncher going back to his cruiserweight days.

There's no way Holyfield is getting KO'd here; his career is testament to that. If anyone is getting stopped, it's Lennox.

dempseyfire wrote:

The Great John L wrote:I think Holyfield's "activity" as a HW is over-rated. While he was a volume puncher early in his career by the time he established himself as a HW his volume punching was spotty at best. He was notorious for taking rounds off, often times several rounds in a row as can be seen against Foreman and even the Bowe fights. Everyone remembers the war against Dokes when he outlasted the past it drug addled Dokes with volume power punching but they also tend forget when Evander would doze off in fights which was quite common. The Dokes fight was also pretty early in his career, and I could see that version getting careless and end up looking up at the lights against the sharp shooting Lewis of his prime.

Holyfield stopping Lewis is certainly a possibility, but it seems more likely from a good counter shot and then a follow-up barrage than a Frazier'esque type pounding. With some early career exceptions, the HW Hollyfield was not a high output punching machine. Of course I’d say that’s in comparison to a guy like Frazier who was almost super-human. There was nothing wrong with Holys punch output, I just don’t think he was the non-stop power punching machine some seem to recall.

If you combine the volume punching ability of the early Holyfield with the more cautious and better defense and counterpunching of the more vintage Holyfield you would have had a guy that was nearly unbeatable, but that fighter never existed. Kind of like trying to envision the offensive prowess of the younger Lewis combined with the improved defense and uppercut of the older Lewis. That guy never existed either.

Holyfield was never Joe Frazier in terms of work-rate at HW, but compared to the other HWs of the 90s (including Lewis) he was Bugs Bunny at his peak. Comparing his punch output vs Dokes, Foreman, Bowe, Douglas to the guy who fought Bean, Lewis, Ruiz is like night and day. Was Evander better defensively in his late 30s? Not really; he was already showing dulled reflexes from all of the wars he'd been in and at his peak kept on his toes consistently and was always showing movement. Better counter-puncher? I don't see that at all. He was a noted counter-puncher going back to his cruiserweight days.

There's no way Holyfield is getting KO'd here; his career is testament to that. If anyone is getting stopped, it's Lennox.

Yep it took a Riddick Bowe to put a stop to a premier Holyfield.

Well these two did engage in quite a few VERY competitive rounds. Some see the cumulative outcome favoring Evander some see it as favoring Lennox. Was all this this due to Lewis's "contentment"?

Well we could argue the Holyfield activity all day, but the stats support my contention. He averaged the following landed punches per round.

Dokes 12.5
Foreman 13.8
Bowe 1 12.9
Bowe 2 11.8

There's nothing in the numbers, or the subjective observations that support Holyfield being able to land enough punches to actually wear a guy like Lewis down, especially considering that Lewis was a vastly superior defensive fighter than any of those guys. Him catching LL with a solid counter, yes, but stopping him in a war of attrition is highly unlikely, especially considering the fact that Lewis fought the best HWs in the division for nearly 15 years and was never worn down and stopped by anybody. The only times he was dropped was by excellent counters, which is what Holyfield was best at.

Lennox would never engage Holyfield in a war, he was too smart for that. The younger Lewis might not have had much of a choice. The guy that was getting out-worked by Frank Bruno would have been in a bad way if they fought then.

Lewis was pretty spent at the end of his fight with Mercer and the Holyfield rematch. Evander at his peak would've given Lewis a lot more to contend with over the distance.

And John L, those stats don't mean much if you aren't going to compare with his rates in 1999 . . I'm sure vs Lewis and Ruiz Evander's landed punches per round were usually in the single digits. And why not compare punches thrown. It takes energy to block a guy's shots even if they do end up getting blocked. And while Lewis had solid defense, let's not describe him as some defensive master . . he had a lot of bad habits (like backing straight up with his hands down) that he could usually get away with because of his size and athleticism, but sometimes did not (see Rahman KO defeat.)

dempseyfire wrote:Lewis was pretty spent at the end of his fight with Mercer and the Holyfield rematch. Evander at his peak would've given Lewis a lot more to contend with over the distance.

And John L, those stats don't mean much if you aren't going to compare with his rates in 1999 . . I'm sure vs Lewis and Ruiz Evander's landed punches per round were usually in the single digits. And why not compare punches thrown. It takes energy to block a guy's shots even if they do end up getting blocked. And while Lewis had solid defense, let's not describe him as some defensive master . . he had a lot of bad habits (like backing straight up with his hands down) that he could usually get away with because of his size and athleticism, but sometimes did not (see Rahman KO defeat.)

I'd be interested in seeing the punches broken down by round. He already correctly stated that he took rounds off along the way. I think he hit Foreman with 15 or 16 punches in a row. I know he landed about 40 shots in a round on Cooper.

There is also the fact that compubox is crap.

Lewis didn't like fighting at a pace. He often got untidy and weary.

And in my mind this is how Holyfield fought, but John is right....Evander always took rounds off. He was just as unlikely to sustain a fast pace as Lewis was. Lewis was more even. Holyfield hot for a round and then cold.

I guess I slightly favour Holy because of their second fight when the old men took Lewis close. Though I think it's a clear win for Lewis. Not clear as in easy but i thought the rounds were easy to score. Lewis turned things back his way with an uppercut and that punch could do it again.

I edge it 52-48 to Holy but that's it.

BoxBuzz wrote:Yep it took a Riddick Bowe to put a stop to a premier Holyfield.

Bowe was pretty much past his peak after Holyfield 1, certainly by Holyfield 3 he wasn't the same fighter. His weight after that first Holyfield fight was always a soft 17 plus stones, and from memory he only weighed light again in the 2nd Golota fight, when he was shot to pieces.

Bowe was pretty much past his peak after Holyfield 1, certainly by Holyfield 3 he wasn't the same fighter. His weight after that first Holyfield fight was always a soft 17 plus stones, and from memory he only weighed light again in the 2nd Golota fight, when he was shot to pieces.

I thought Holyfield won the rematch. Before anyone starts frothing at the mouth a great deal of significant press thought Holyfield won as well. Those scorecards were pretty much filled out before they even began due to the worldwide scandal of the previous fight.

How about that octogenarian who scored it 11-1 Lewis? What a guy!