BoxRec

Am i the only one who is sick of Nathan Cleverly fighting bums? His last three opponents (world title defences) have been against guys ranked outside the top 40. Who else gets away with this?
Tony Bellew who Cleverly beat just a year & a half or so ago in now ranked 7 places above him.
Cleverly's not even ranked in the top 10 of his own division & he's world champion. Are there any other world champions in that predicament?

Yeah i agree with the standard of opposition since he became world champ,probably fought better fighters when he held the European,Commonwealth and British titles :) but none of thats been his fault,injured opponents,people not turning up at airports and mandatories but i do think he,s the real deal though,always gives 100% and iv never seen him flustered,intimidated or losing heart,he,ll give us some great nights,you wait and see

Probably box a washed up chad Dawson in 8 years time & have loads of clueless boxing fans worshipping his boots on the forums.
I like cleverley as he gives his all each time, but his matchmaking is that the calzaghe/ ottke mould. I would not pay too watch his bouts!
Fighters like Carl froch you have to see! There is a massive chance he could be heading towards a loss & it's a guaranteed tear up

I'm sick of him.

Horse wrote:I'm sick of him.

What has HE done wrong :??

handsofstone wrote:What has HE done wrong :??

HE has fought a bunch of bums over the last 18 months. HE is boring.

Cleverly is a great example of how allegedly takes a fighter to "the top".

Cleverly has been British, Commonwealth, European champion and is the current WBO champ. Sounds like he has had a fantastic career however a closer look at his fight record tells the truth. He has never defeated a champion. All the titles he has won have been vacated by the champion.

Dean Francis vacated the Commonwealth title. Cleverly beats Tony Oakey for the vacant belt.

Dean Francis vacated the British title. Cleverly then beats Danny McIntosh for the vacant belt.

Juergen Braehmer vacated the European title. Cleverly then beats Antonio Brancalion for the vacant belt.

Cleverly than defeats Nadjib Mohammedi for the interim WBO title. Juergen Braehmar, the full WBO champion, is stripped of his title. Cleverly gets promoted to full champion.

When your toughest fight has been Tony Bellew it speaks volumes about the circles you've mixed in. I think Cleverly will be found out if he ever moves to world level. Paper champ if I've ever saw one.

chad wrote:Cleverly is a great example of how allegedly takes a fighter to "the top".

Cleverly has been British, Commonwealth, European champion and is the current WBO champ. Sounds like he has had a fantastic career however a closer look at his fight record tells the truth. He has never defeated a champion. All the titles he has won have been vacated by the champion.

Dean Francis vacated the Commonwealth title. Cleverly beats Tony Oakey for the vacant belt.

Dean Francis vacated the British title. Cleverly then beats Danny McIntosh for the vacant belt.

Juergen Braehmer vacated the European title. Cleverly then beats Antonio Brancalion for the vacant belt.

Cleverly than defeats Nadjib Mohammedi for the interim WBO title. Juergen Braehmar, the full WBO champion, is stripped of his title. Cleverly gets promoted to full champion.

When your toughest fight has been Tony Bellew it speaks volumes about the circles you've mixed in. I think Cleverly will be found out if he ever moves to world level. Paper champ if I've ever saw one.

Excellent points. Another example of Bunny's way to 'the top'

He's a total paper chump and I won't watch any of his fights till either a) he goes in with someone who's actually world level or b) he stops touting himself as an actual world champion

I,ll agree the standards not been great but cant believe the hating on HIM as a boxer and his ability,he,s shown all the attributes of a great champion,good workrate,engine,punch variety,output,solid chin and he might not be a devastating puncher but if he hits you in the right place he can hurt you,i think he needs to tighting up his defence,dont let get dragged into brawls,stick to using his skills and obviously start stepping up a level coz even i cant defend him if he doesnt get a move on

handsofstone wrote:I,ll agree the standards not been great but cant believe the hating on HIM as a boxer and his ability,he,s shown all the attributes of a great champion,good workrate,engine,punch variety,output,solid chin and he might not be a devastating puncher but if he hits you in the right place he can hurt you,i think he needs to tighting up his defence,dont let get dragged into brawls,stick to using his skills and obviously start stepping up a level coz even i cant defend him if he doesnt get a move on

Oh, I'll not hate on his abilities (mostly) - he has a tremendous workrate, good variety and so far a very solid chin. I'm not sold on his defence yet, and we're not going to know how smart a boxer he is until he goes into world class territory (which, besides his claims to be world class, is why it annoys me that he hasn't stepped up properly yet - I want to see how good he can be!).

It does worry me that the fight with Bellew was so close; essentially he only won a couple more rounds than Chilemba against Bellew (or the same amount if you take that fight as a robbery for Chilemba, which it might well have been). If he doesn't have the defence or offensive accuracy to match his physical gifts, he's going to struggle at world level.

I just can't see Cleverly beating the likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Pascal or even Bute who has recently moved up.

I can't see Cleverly beating Super Middleweights like Ward, Froch, Kessler, Stieglitz, Abraham or even Groves should they move up in weight.

I think a pumped up, wild swinging from round 1 Enzo Mac could beat Cleverly!

handsofstone wrote:I,ll agree the standards not been great but cant believe the hating on HIM as a boxer and his ability,he,s shown all the attributes of a great champion,good workrate,engine,punch variety,output,solid chin and he might not be a devastating puncher but if he hits you in the right place he can hurt you,i think he needs to tighting up his defence,dont let get dragged into brawls,stick to using his skills and obviously start stepping up a level coz even i cant defend him if he doesnt get a move on

Thing is, this is not hate. He is fit, throws a lot of punches, has bottle to burn, decent speed. His defense, his accuracy is questionable. He is portrayed as some kind of boxer but what he is, is a fast handed, busy swarmer type. He can be outboxed and relies on his fitness to pull him through (which is not a bad thing). His trust in Bunny, who displays a complete lack of ambition and merely focuses on saftey first defences against poor opponents, is what frustrates me, as a fan.

The guy has some ability. No, he would not be a world champ under normal circumstances but he has not improved since his Brtish / Euro days. Its about about perception and spin on behalf of his manager. Milk him for what he can, they both earn, minimal risk and sod the rest. Thing is, I know W@rren doesn't give a f*** but I genuinely thought Cleverley wanted more than that. He either believes what W@rren tells him re: trying to make all these fights but they all 'dont want to know' or he is happy with his lot and will continue on this road. Whichever way you slice it, he is wasting his career away.

Is Cleverly vs Braehmer next?

If Cleverly finds a way to avoid that one then he really will start to get some hate.

bengulnaci1 wrote: Thing is, this is not hate. He is fit, throws a lot of punches, has bottle to burn, decent speed. His defense, his accuracy is questionable. He is portrayed as some kind of boxer but what he is, is a fast handed, busy swarmer type. He can be outboxed and relies on his fitness to pull him through (which is not a bad thing). His trust in Bunny, who displays a complete lack of ambition and merely focuses on saftey first defences against poor opponents, is what frustrates me, as a fan.

The guy has some ability. No, he would not be a world champ under normal circumstances but he has not improved since his Brtish / Euro days. Its about about perception and spin on behalf of his manager. Milk him for what he can, they both earn, minimal risk and sod the rest. Thing is, I know W@rren doesn't give a f*** but I genuinely thought Cleverley wanted more than that. He either believes what W@rren tells him re: trying to make all these fights but they all 'dont want to know' or he is happy with his lot and will continue on this road. Whichever way you slice it, he is wasting his career away.

Good post that Ben. . I personally think he knows he has hit his high - if he doesn't then his obvious lack of ambition is headscratching.

chad wrote:Cleverly is a great example of how allegedly takes a fighter to "the top".

Cleverly has been British, Commonwealth, European champion and is the current WBO champ. Sounds like he has had a fantastic career however a closer look at his fight record tells the truth. He has never defeated a champion. All the titles he has won have been vacated by the champion.

Dean Francis vacated the Commonwealth title. Cleverly beats Tony Oakey for the vacant belt.

Dean Francis vacated the British title. Cleverly then beats Danny McIntosh for the vacant belt.

Juergen Braehmer vacated the European title. Cleverly then beats Antonio Brancalion for the vacant belt.

Cleverly than defeats Nadjib Mohammedi for the interim WBO title. Juergen Braehmar, the full WBO champion, is stripped of his title. Cleverly gets promoted to full champion.

When your toughest fight has been Tony Bellew it speaks volumes about the circles you've mixed in. I think Cleverly will be found out if he ever moves to world level. Paper champ if I've ever saw one.

x5000

I've got nothing against his ability as a boxer... but his stupid headbands still irritate me.

Juergen Braehmer. He's on the menu and a win over him would put him at the top of the tree in Europe at least.

bengulnaci1 wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I,ll agree the standards not been great but cant believe the hating on HIM as a boxer and his ability,he,s shown all the attributes of a great champion,good workrate,engine,punch variety,output,solid chin and he might not be a devastating puncher but if he hits you in the right place he can hurt you,i think he needs to tighting up his defence,dont let get dragged into brawls,stick to using his skills and obviously start stepping up a level coz even i cant defend him if he doesnt get a move on

Thing is, this is not hate. He is fit, throws a lot of punches, has bottle to burn, decent speed. His defense, his accuracy is questionable. He is portrayed as some kind of boxer but what he is, is a fast handed, busy swarmer type. He can be outboxed and relies on his fitness to pull him through (which is not a bad thing). His trust in Bunny, who displays a complete lack of ambition and merely focuses on saftey first defences against poor opponents, is what frustrates me, as a fan.

The guy has some ability. No, he would not be a world champ under normal circumstances but he has not improved since his Brtish / Euro days. Its about about perception and spin on behalf of his manager. Milk him for what he can, they both earn, minimal risk and sod the rest. Thing is, I know W@rren doesn't give a f*** but I genuinely thought Cleverley wanted more than that. He either believes what W@rren tells him re: trying to make all these fights but they all 'dont want to know' or he is happy with his lot and will continue on this road. Whichever way you slice it, he is wasting his career away.

I do sort of agree with this. I like Cleverly and he is good, but he’s not improving…that’s the worrying thing. He looked so good early in his career and the progression hasn’t happened.

Volume punching swarmers are hard to beat, especially if they add some defensive moves in there. But to perfect those moves you need to be testing yourself. and As he gets older that fitness advantage will recede.

He could do with fighting every 3 months for the next 3 years.

chad wrote:I just can't see Cleverly beating the likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Pascal or even Bute who has recently moved up.

I can't see Cleverly beating Super Middleweights like Ward, Froch, Kessler, Stieglitz, Abraham or even Groves should they move up in weight.

I think a pumped up, wild swinging from round 1 Enzo Mac could beat Cleverly!

I think your being very harsh here!

Braehmar will most likely box the ears off him. I still can't believe that people have started treating WBO titles as being as credible as the Big 3, which themselves are not very credible! It's a junior title, and those who win it generally don't fight the best. T'was ever thus.

Cleverley's a very good fighter who will prove to be in the 'hard to beat' mould.

He beat Bellew despite performing under par.

I agree he needs a big fight but he is good.

Once he leaves Warren and defects to Hearn he will be loved on here.

FACT

chad wrote:I just can't see Cleverly beating the likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Pascal or even Bute who has recently moved up.

I can't see Cleverly beating Super Middleweights like Ward, Froch, Kessler, Stieglitz, Abraham or even Groves should they move up in weight.

I think a pumped up, wild swinging from round 1 Enzo Mac could beat Cleverly!

Nonsense - I would favour him against Bute as he is not afraid to mix it. Abraham he would beat well, Abraham isn't much of a fighter. Enzo Mac would be KO'ed by Cleverly.

Clev has everything to be a top champion but remember he is still young so we can't rush him. He has a good chin, heart and his work rate during the fight is great, FW can't afford to rush him into massive fights as allegedly will be ruined give Clev a chance if he moves to sky (hopefully)

WelshJack wrote:Clev has everything to be a top champion but remember he is still young so we can't rush him. He has a good chin, heart and his work rate during the fight is great, FW can't afford to rush him into massive fights as allegedly will be ruined give Clev a chance if he moves to sky (hopefully)

Rubbish, he is WBO champion and most of his recent opposition is not even top 50 ranked. He should have been fighting top 30 level opposition at the very least.