BoxRec

1. (1.) Carl Froch
2. (2.) Ricky Burns
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (4.) Martin Murray
5. (5.) Amir Khan
6. (6.) Tyson Fury
7. (11.) George Groves
8. (17.) Tony Bellew
9. (7.) Nathan Cleverly
10. (15.) Jamie McDonnell

11. (8.) Ola Afolabi
12. (9.) Kell Brook
13. (10.) Matthew Macklin
14. (12.) Carl Frampton
15. (13.) Darren Barker
16. (18.) James DeGale
17. (14.) Lee Selby
18. (16.) Scott Quigg
19. (19.) Lee Haskins
20. (20.) Brian Rose

21. (21.) Gavin Rees
22. (22.) Gary Buckland
23. (24.) Andy Lee (Irish)
24. (23.) Dereck Chisora
25. (RE.) John Simpson
26. (25.) Kevin Satchell
27. (26.) David Price
28. (27.) Brian Magee (Irish)
29. (28.) Frankie Gavin
30. (29.) Kevin Mitchell

Out - (30.) Rendall Munroe

Any comments/criticisms of the British Top 30 P4P list are very welcome.

A new world champion in Jamie Mc Donnell is ranked 10 below fighters who have never held a World title, let alone European title. That is beyond a joke.

I think it's better to rank fighters based on who they fought and how they performed independent of the titles they've won, because winning a title doesn't, on its own, say much about the quality of the opponents one fought and the quality of the performances one gave.

McDonnell may have won titles that others above him haven't won, but he won the EBU by beating a fighter without a notable win in Jerome Arnould and he won the IBF by beating untested 20-year old Julio Ceja; that these were title bouts shouldn't make one consider the opponents or McDonnell's performances more impressive than one would otherwise.

You could argue that even if titles are irrelevant McDonnell still deserves to be above Murray, Groves, Fury, and Bellew, but I don't think it's clear considering the others have performed well against or beaten a group of opponents roughly as good as or better than the likes of Ceja, Hall, Jamoye, and Napa, each of whom were very competitive with McDonnell.

Bellew recent win doesn't deserve such a jump IMO.

I don't particularly rate clev, but he beat Bellew in his hometown. So seems perverse logic that Bellew would rate higher even given respective CVs.

george groves far too high.......

brian13 wrote:A new world champion in Jamie Mc Donnell is ranked 10 below fighters who have never held a World title, let alone European title. That is beyond a joke.

McDonnell's record since 2012 began had been weak: Pozo and Zamora were awful opponents for McDonnell to be fightining.

Ceja was a good win for McDonnell, but how good was Ceja? He wasn't proven world class. Is he as good as Jamoye who McDonnell beat over two years ago?

crusader wrote:I think it's better to rank fighters based on who they fought and how they performed independent of the titles they've won, because winning a title doesn't, on its own, say much about the quality of the opponents one fought and the quality of the performances one gave.

McDonnell may have won titles that others above him haven't won, but he won the EBU by beating a fighter without a notable win in Jerome Arnould and he won the IBF by beating untested 20-year old Julio Ceja; that these were title bouts shouldn't make one consider the opponents or McDonnell's performances more impressive than one would otherwise.

You could argue that even if titles are irrelevant McDonnell still deserves to be above Murray, Groves, Fury, and Bellew, but I don't think it's clear considering the others have performed well against or beaten a group of opponents roughly as good as or better than the likes of Ceja, Hall, Jamoye, and Napa, each of whom were very competitive with McDonnell.

squared circle wrote:Bellew recent win doesn't deserve such a jump IMO.

I don't particularly rate clev, but he beat Bellew in his hometown. So seems perverse logic that Bellew would rate higher even given respective CVs.

Their fight was close and Bellew has been fighting better opposition than Cleverly has since they fought.

Cleverly's opposition has been very weak. Which reigning world champions have fought worse opposition than Cleverly has over the last 18 months?

Bellew is rotten, there is no way he should be as high as 8. If he was fighting the same guys on an obscure boxing channel he would be lucky to make the top 20!

To be fair, if you are going on opponents faced recently then personally I would have Cleverly just in the top 15.

11. (8.) Ola Afolabi - fought Huck once, got a draw and has the grudge match soon
12. (9.) Kell Brook - fought his way to IBF mandatory position against decent opponents, still better than cleverly's opponents
13. (10.) Matthew Macklin - fought Martinez and was competive, robbed against Sturm and destroyed Alcine in 1, who Rose stopped in twelve
14. (12.) Carl Frampton - KO'ed Molitor and Martinez two very good fighters
15. (13.) Darren Barker - opponents wise ok but did put up a good show against Martinez.

Cleverly on my list would fall to at least 14 and so he is too high based on the theory being used. He might have beaten Bellew but wasn't he tipped to win well and struggled.

SOUTHPAW wrote:george groves far too high.......

I think his record is a bit underrated. I think he deserves a pretty high ranking.

how can bellew jump that high with a crap performance,headlocks and allsorts? khan shouldnt even be in a P4P list he hasnt got the chin for a P4P list and groves he isnt a p4p contender either imo,another glass chin that will be found out when he is moved up another level.

fasteddie wrote:how can bellew jump that high with a crap performance,headlocks and allsorts? khan shouldnt even be in a P4P list he hasnt got the chin for a P4P list and groves he isnt a p4p contender either imo,another glass chin that will be found out when he is moved up another level.

So Khan and Groves should not be in the top 30?

That is quite a strong statement to make - Groves and Khan may not be everyones cup of tea but to say that they are not among the best 30 fighters we have in the country is a bold statement indeed.

the (UK only) boxrec database 30 is as follows. the number next to it is the amount of places difference between the boxrec rating and horses

froch 0
haye 1
fury 3
brook 8
burns 3
bellew 2
murray 3
macklin 4
groves 2
khan 5

barker 4
rose 8
frampton 1
degale 2
cleverly 6
gavin 13
mckenzie N/A
quigg 0
rees 2
chisora 4

price 6
mitchell 7
buckland 1
hamilton N/A
Saunders N/A
Purdy N/A
Flannigan N/A
McCloskey N/A
Anwar N/A
McDonnell 20

fasteddie wrote:how can bellew jump that high with a crap performance,headlocks and allsorts? khan shouldnt even be in a P4P list he hasnt got the chin for a P4P list and groves he isnt a p4p contender either imo,another glass chin that will be found out when he is moved up another level.

Jesus

ThereByTheGrace wrote:Bellew is rotten, there is no way he should be as high as 8. If he was fighting the same guys on an obscure boxing channel he would be lucky to make the top 20!

McIntosh, Miranda, Bolonti & Chilemba x 2 has been a good run of opponents for Bellew over the last 18 months. It compares well with other fighters ranked below him.

I'm pretty sure I'd have Bellew in the top 20 even if his fights were untelevised.

brian13 wrote:To be fair, if you are going on opponents faced recently then personally I would have Cleverly just in the top 15.

11. (8.) Ola Afolabi - fought Huck once, got a draw and has the grudge match soon
12. (9.) Kell Brook - fought his way to IBF mandatory position against decent opponents, still better than cleverly's opponents
13. (10.) Matthew Macklin - fought Martinez and was competive, robbed against Sturm and destroyed Alcine in 1, who Rose stopped in twelve
14. (12.) Carl Frampton - KO'ed Molitor and Martinez two very good fighters
15. (13.) Darren Barker - opponents wise ok but did put up a good show against Martinez.

Cleverly on my list would fall to at least 14 and so he is too high based on the theory being used. He might have beaten Bellew but wasn't he tipped to win well and struggled.

I don't just base a fighter's ranking on recent wins, but they are important. Cleverly's good wins are getting further and further back in time and as they do that they count for less and less.

I don't consider Cleverly's recent opposition to be worth very much at all, so he could plummet down the rankings if he keeps fighting these soft touches.

Bellew above Cleverly is a complete joke and needs to be changed ASAP. It's embarrassing Horse.

fasteddie wrote:how can bellew jump that high with a crap performance,headlocks and allsorts?

Bellew beat someone good, so he moved up. Being scrappy and beating someone good is better than fighting clean and beating someone lousy.

fasteddie wrote:khan shouldnt even be in a P4P list he hasnt got the chin for a P4P list and groves he isnt a p4p contender either imo,another glass chin that will be found out when he is moved up another level.

Khan is a former unified world champion and has many world class wins, he most certainly does belong on a British P4P list.

Groves has a number of decent wins, he belongs on the list as well.


Do you really believe what you wrote in that post? You were exaggerating, yes?

@matt___s wrote:froch 0
haye 1
fury 3
brook 8
burns 3
bellew 2
murray 3
macklin 4
groves 2
khan 5

barker 4
rose 8
frampton 1
degale 2
cleverly 6
gavin 13
mckenzie N/A
quigg 0
rees 2
chisora 4

price 6
mitchell 7
buckland 1
hamilton N/A
Saunders N/A
Purdy N/A
Flannigan N/A
McCloskey N/A
Anwar N/A
McDonnell 20

Interesting.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Bellew above Cleverly is a complete joke and needs to be changed ASAP. It's embarrassing Horse.

Cleverly is a joke, Bellew deserves to be ranked above him.

Cleverly fights bums, so he will drop down the rankings. His opposition in the last 18 months is amongst the weakest of everyone in the P4P top 30.

Horse wrote:Cleverly is a joke

Sounds like your rating is personal.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Sounds like your rating is personal.

I've lost respect for him because he fights very weak opponents and I have dropped him for the same reason. Cleverly dropping down the rankings is fair.

I'm surprised many people are willing to defend Cleverly after his disgraceful reign as WBO champion over the last 18 months.

Horse wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Sounds like your rating is personal.

I've lost respect for him because he fights very weak opponents and I have dropped him for the same reason. Cleverly dropping down the rankings is fair.

I'm surprised many people are willing to defend Cleverly after his disgraceful reign as WBO champion over the last 18 months.