BoxRec

Who's your pick?

I don't think there is even a default (i.e. Sugar Ray Robinson) answer for this one, is there?

J-C wrote:Who's your pick?

I don't think there is even a default (i.e. Sugar Ray Robinson) answer for this one, is there?

Richard 'The Secret' Williams.

#1. Lennox Lewis
#2. Max Schmeling
#3. Ingemar Johansson

Fitzsimmons?

Ezzard wrote:Fitzsimmons?

It's hard to argue with his collection of world titles.

No definitive answer, I might go with Loi.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No definitive answer, I might go with Loi.

One hell of a record.

Could be one of about 10 guys. Including those mentioned, probably want to throw Nino Benvenuti, Marcel Cerdan and Jimmy Wilde into the mix.
And then there are the great Germans, Sven Ottke, Markus Beyer and Bert Schenk

Len Harvey is always underestimated in these discussions and Berg was a beast.

giacomino wrote:And then there are the great Germans, Sven Ottke, Markus Beyer and Bert Schenk

Ottke was a talented guy, despite is rep for getting the benefit of some dodgy officiating. Can't see Beyer or Schenk in the mix tho.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Len Harvey is always underestimated in these discussions and Berg was a beast.

Harvey was local to where I grew up and Berg is local to where I live now.

In no particular order....


Bob Fitzsimmons
Jim Droscoll
Jimmy Wilde
Freddie Mills
Laszlo Papp
Lennox Lewis
Rinty Monagahn
Wayne McCullough
Steve Collins
Marcel Cerdan
Max Schmeling
Ingemar Johanasson

The list is really endless considering this sport that we all love was reborn and became the way it is today in Europe and Great Britain and Ireland, going back into the 1600's. Many an all-time great per era came from Europe.

J-C wrote:

giacomino wrote:And then there are the great Germans, Sven Ottke, Markus Beyer and Bert Schenk

Ottke was a talented guy, despite is rep for getting the benefit of some dodgy officiating. Can't see Beyer or Schenk in the mix tho.

Wasn't being serious. Re: Ottke. I admittedly have a fairly low opinion of him because of a few truly awful decisions and the horrific hometown ref in the Reid fight (warning Reid for having the gall to actually hit Ottke). In some fights he looked pretty talented, in others, pretty average, IMO.

HH: Good shout out on Papp. I forgot about him but an excellent fighter. Too bad he wasn't allowed to fight for a pro title

Jimmy Wilde

HomicideHenry wrote:In no particular order....


Bob Fitzsimmons
Jim Droscoll
Jimmy Wilde
Freddie Mills
Laszlo Papp
Lennox Lewis
Rinty Monagahn
Wayne McCullough
Steve Collins
Marcel Cerdan
Max Schmeling
Ingemar Johanasson

The list is really endless considering this sport that we all love was reborn and became the way it is today in Europe and Great Britain and Ireland, going back into the 1600's. Many an all-time great per era came from Europe.

Nice list, but I'd rate Ted Lewis above some of them.

Maybe the best European fighter ever is yet to emerge from the old Eastern block.

Richard Dunn

No one could fall like him.

dr_devious wrote:Jimmy Wilde

jimmy wilde for me too . if naz hamed had stayed with ingle he could of been up there with wilde

Don't forget Fainting Phil Scott.

Ted Kid Lewis?

I think Lewis has to be in with a shout, for sure. Maybe even the "other" kid, Berg.

Papp, Loi, Lynch & Fitz also definitely worth consideration. Post war, there's a few names you could throw in but I'm sure some would have their dissenters. Buchanan, Benvenuti, Lewis & Calzaghe should be in anyone's top ten.

Cerdan is worthy but I think he falls under greatest African fighter imo.

Why do the British always try to claim Fitzsimmons? He left Europe at 9 years old and spent the vast majority of the rest of his life (45 years) in NZ, Aus, and the United States. He did nothing boxing related that we know of prior to moving to New Zealand. I don't think Britain has any more claim to him than Denmark has to Battling Nelson.

klompton wrote:Why do the British always try to claim Fitzsimmons? He left Europe at 9 years old and spent the vast majority of the rest of his life (45 years) in NZ, Aus, and the United States. He did nothing boxing related that we know of prior to moving to New Zealand. I don't think Britain has any more claim to him than Denmark has to Battling Nelson.

WTF!... how dare you take Bat away from us Danes! He's probably our 2nd greatest boxer ever (after Tom Bogs), and we are very proud of him!

PS: I would like to nominate George Carpentier for Greatest European Fighter Ever.

If you don't count Fitzsimmons, it is really a tough call. You also would have to consider Owen Moran and Freddie Welsh.

J-C wrote:Who's your pick?

I don't think there is even a default (i.e. Sugar Ray Robinson) answer for this one, is there?

My bet would be in the lower weight classes, someone from perhaps below welter or something or possibly LHW

Right now just bob fitssimmons and LL come to mind perhaps calzaghe he is undefeated but there has to be someone else.