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Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 03 Jul 2013, 18:39
by elmersalsa
It would have been better for the great Mantequilla to stay out of the ring. And that's what he did. If not, he would have been eaten for dinner by Carlos Palomino. Mantequilla was 36 and out of prime. No doubt.
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 01:08
by Chuck1052
[quote="Il Duce"]True,
But Jackie McCoy did turn down $160,000 to fight Jose Napoles in Mexico City
for early-September 1976.
That was a 'monster fight purse' for Carlos, who only received $20,000 in his title
winning bout with John Stracey on June 22, 1976.
After what happened to Armando Muniz in his first bout with Jose Napoles for the latter's world welterweight title in Mexico, the Southern California boxing people and fans were very leery about the Mexican boxing game. Yes, Muniz did fight Napoles in Mexico for the title for a second time, but he was still the challenger.
Notice that Carlos Palomino WAS the world welterweight titleholder at the time he allegedly got a $160,000. offer to fight Napoles in Mexico City. Also keep in mind that it is generally believed Mando Ramos, another one of Jackie McCoy's fighters, got a raw deal in a bout with Pedro Carrasco in the latter's home country of Spain. Under the circumstances, can you blame McCoy being wary about Palomino having a bout with Napoles in a country like Mexico?
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 01:14
by Chuck1052
Chuck1052 wrote:Il Duce wrote:True,
But Jackie McCoy did turn down $160,000 to fight Jose Napoles in Mexico City
for early-September 1976.
That was a 'monster fight purse' for Carlos, who only received $20,000 in his title
winning bout with John Stracey on June 22, 1976.
===================================================================
After what happened to Armando Muniz in his first bout with Jose Napoles for the latter's world welterweight title in Mexico, the Southern California boxing people and fans were very leery about the Mexican boxing game. Yes, Muniz did fight Napoles in Mexico for the title for a second time, but he was still the challenger.
Notice that Carlos Palomino WAS the world welterweight titleholder at the time he allegedly got a $160,000. offer to fight Napoles in Mexico City. Also keep in mind that it is generally believed Mando Ramos, another one of Jackie McCoy's fighters, got a raw deal in a bout with Pedro Carrasco in the latter's home country of Spain. Under the circumstances, can you blame McCoy being wary about Palomino having a bout with Napoles in a country like Mexico?
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 09:02
by Chuck1052
Yes, $160,000. was a lot of money in 1976, but I would still be leery about any defense of Carlos Palomino's hard-won title against Jose Napoles in Mexico even if the latter was barely breathing. Regardless, it worked out for Palomino in the long run because he won the title in an upset vs. John Stracey in the latter's home country and went on to have a fair number of title defenses.
I saw Palomino defend his title in person vs. Mando Muniz twice and Everaldo Costa Azevedo.
Think of the difference of the money what Palomino got for his first bout with Muniz and
what Sugar Ray Leonard got for his first bout with Thomas Hearns. I also saw the latter bout in person.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 23:46
by Chuck1052
Il Duce wrote:Chuck,
If I do remember correctly, Jose 'Mantequilla' Napoles would 'not' fight outside of Mexico anymore.
Due to his thin-skin above the eyes, a bout anywhere outside of the 'home confines' of Mexico
for Jose Napoles would have been most likely been stopped early due to heavy bleeding.
In Mexico, Jose would at least be able to continue fighting with blood gushing all over the place,
as long as he was standing.
Jose Napoles was moved up to the #1 WBC Welterweight in April 1976 - when Bruno Arcari
moved up to Light-Middleweight.
'Mantequilla' remained as the #1 WBC Challenger until he announced his retirement on July 7, 1976.
Jose Napoles had gone downhill so much by the time he fought John Stracey. As a result, his retirement was far overdue by the time he hung up the gloves for good.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 08:40
by Chuck1052
Il Duce wrote:One good thing,
In July 1976 - Jose Sulaiman of the WBC said he would not approve Jose Napoles fighting Carlos Palomino,
unless 'Mantequilla' had a full medical examination to determine if he was physically fit.
Supposedly Jose Napoles failed a medical examination by the Mexican Boxing Commission in early July 1976.
If they did fight, Jose would have ended up a 'mess'.
Agreed!
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 11:38
by Chuck1052
Il Duce wrote:Chuck,
According to the Boxing Report -
The winner of the John H. Stracey vs. Carlos Palomino (June 22, 1976 WBC Championship Bout}
had to face the #1 WBC Challenger within 90-Days.
Once #1 WBC--ranked Jose Napoels retired.......Armando Muniz was moved into the 'mandatory'
position.
I wonder, how Armando Muniz would have done against John H. Stracey in June 1976 - had it been
him in London instead of Carlos.
Could see almost the same type of fight.
A fight between John H. Stracey and Armando Muniz would have been interesting, but it is my feeling that Muniz wouldn't have been champion very long even if he won. Muniz had been through quite a few wars by 1976, fading rapidly after his first bout with Carlos Palomino. In the second bout with Palomino, Muniz lost handily despite going the distance. Comparing the two during their peak years, I consider Palomino to have been a better, more skillful fighter than Muniz even though the latter was a handful during his prime years.
As I recall, Palomino was something like a 4-to-1 underdog in his bout with Stracey. But Jackie McCoy and Palomino went over to England with the idea of winning. Moreover, I remember reading that Palomino was doing his training at night before going over to England to fight Stracy in order to become acclimated to the time difference.
I myself saw Palomino fight Hedgemon Lewis to a draw in a ten-round bout before he fought Stracey. In my opinion, Lewis had an edge in the bout. But Palomino became a far better fighter after becoming a world welterweight champion.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 22:08
by Chuck1052
Il Duce, I see that Pipino Cuevas was no. 1 on the WBC world welterweight rankings in 1976. Cuevas was most popular fighter among people of Mexican descent during the late 1970s and early 1980s, far more popular than Carlos Palomino. Since Cuevas held the WBA version of the world welterweight title and Palomino, the WBC version, there was constant talk about who would win a bout between the two.
I think that Palomino had too big an advantage in terms of skill and durability for Cuevas, who was a rather limited fighter with a powerful left-hook. It appeared that Cuevas was matched very carefully until being exposed by Thomas Hearns. Later on, Cuevas was stopped by Roberto Duran, who was far past his prime at the time, but still was too much for his opponent.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 08 Jul 2013, 07:33
by Chuck1052
Il Duce wrote:Starting in January 1976, the WBC ranked the WBA Champions in their World Ratings, and
positioned them accordingly.
Carlos Palomino vs. Pipino Cuevas would have been a natural.
Back in late-1977, both Carlos and Pipino were receiving fight purses of $125,000 per Title Defense
for National Television broadcasts.
Carlos had stated that both he and Pipino would require a minimum of a $250,000 fight purse
to engage in a WBC/WBA Unification Bout.
But, I think they upped their demands to $350,000 which chased the Television Networks away from
the bout.
Only a short time after 1977, a $350,000. purse for a world welterweight champion would have been chump change. Of course, it became far different when Sugar Ray Leonard was
a champion.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 10:22
by Nile4000
Il Duce wrote:Starting in January 1976, the WBC ranked the WBA Champions in their World Ratings, and
positioned them accordingly.
Carlos Palomino vs. Pipino Cuevas would have been a natural.
Back in late-1977, both Carlos and Pipino were receiving fight purses of $125,000 per Title Defense
for National Television broadcasts.
Carlos had stated that both he and Pipino would require a minimum of a $250,000 fight purse
to engage in a WBC/WBA Unification Bout.
But, I think they upped their demands to $350,000 which chased the Television Networks away from
the bout.
Interesting that the WBC ranked the WBA champs in their ratings.I wonder if the WBA did the same thing back at that time.I know the USBA and NABF did it also at one time.Can't see Palimino beating Cuevas, however, but he would lose a majority decision.
Re: Carlos Palomino vs. Jose Napoles 'September 1976'
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 12:27
by Chuck1052
Il Duce wrote:Nile 4000,
Once Jose Sulaiman took over the WBC in December 1975, he made an effort to position
the WBA Champions accordingly in the WBC Top 10 Ratings.
Though, the WBA Champion was 'not' a mandatory challenger even if they were slotted
in the #1 position.
It was more of a 'good faith' gesture.
The WBA Honcho's in Panama {Dr. Elias Cordova and Rodolfo Sanchez} were against ranking
the WBC Champion as far as I can remember in 1975 and 1976.
What is more logical than ranking the best fighter not holding your organization's world title in a certain weight as the no. 1 contender? It gives your organization more crediability. But it is my opinion that the WBC, WBA and IBF are a bunch of shakedown artists who usually make certain moves to put more money in their pockets, resulting in professional boxing being a laughing stock in sports. But such organizations don't seem to care.
- Chuck Johnston