BoxRec

Who's do you think was the most effective?

Holmes had the superior jab out of the three men.

Holmes

Klitschko shouldn't even be in this discussion. He paws with his jab way too much, and it was slow enough that Haye was able to slip the wide majority of Wlad's jabs with his hands at his sides. He would've had no such success vs Holmes, Ali, Louis, even Terrell.

dempseyfire wrote:Klitschko shouldn't even be in this discussion. He paws with his jab way too much, and it was slow enough that Haye was able to slip the wide majority of Wlad's jabs with his hands at his sides. He would've had no such success vs Holmes, Ali, Louis, even Terrell.

If he just paws his jab out there all the time then why don't anyone get on the inside and rip his body to pieces? One of the biggest reasons to Wladimir's success is his big hard jab. If you think Haye had so much success then you should re watch the fight and look at the fight result. Last I checked Wladimir beat him good

Would these three great jabs be useful in a round robin affair? I agree Holmes was best, but am hard pressed to imagine it gets him to the finish line with either of these competitors. Ali nullifies it with footwork, and dexterity, and Wlads longer jab, could render it rather ineffective.

But jab vs jab, Larry really may have had the best....and if you are rating the best of the best jabs, might want to include Liston. IMHO.

BoxBuzz wrote:Would these three great jabs be useful in a round robin affair? I agree Holmes was best, but am hard pressed to imagine it gets him to the finish line with either of these competitors. Ali nullifies it with footwork, and dexterity, and Wlads longer jab, could render it rather ineffective.

But jab vs jab, Larry really may have had the best....and if you are rating the best of the best jabs, might want to include Liston. IMHO.

As early as 1974 Holmes was becoming too much to handle in the Ali training camp. Muhammad couldn't do much with him in sparring. The case may be made that by the time Holmes reached his peak in the early 80's that he would have been able to nullify Ali's speed and tactics even in his prime. Of course this is speculative, but Larry Holmes maintains to this day that he could have beaten Ali at his best.

it's an interesting discussion, because he also had the luxury of being able to disect, assess, and develop under Ali's skill set. An advantage no one else so talented would ever have.

Remember what happend to Liston when faced his sparring mate that knew him so well? Though he KO'd Sonny, he also never fought again. That was a savage fight.

HomicideHenry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Would these three great jabs be useful in a round robin affair? I agree Holmes was best, but am hard pressed to imagine it gets him to the finish line with either of these competitors. Ali nullifies it with footwork, and dexterity, and Wlads longer jab, could render it rather ineffective.

But jab vs jab, Larry really may have had the best....and if you are rating the best of the best jabs, might want to include Liston. IMHO.

As early as 1974 Holmes was becoming too much to handle in the Ali training camp. Muhammad couldn't do much with him in sparring. The case may be made that by the time Holmes reached his peak in the early 80's that he would have been able to nullify Ali's speed and tactics even in his prime. Of course this is speculative, but Larry Holmes maintains to this day that he could have beaten Ali at his best.

Everyone was too much for Ali to handle in camp... a notoriously bad gym fighter..I love Larry but he has the highest opinion of himself - rates himself as the greatest ever..without the tongue in cheek...frazier would have had him..big time.

CrazyHorse wrote: If he just paws his jab out there all the time then why don't anyone get on the inside and rip his body to pieces? One of the biggest reasons to Wladimir's success is his big hard jab.

You sound very young and new to boxing.

The biggest reason to Wlad's success is the big breasts and guts of his opponents, and their total lack of technical skill.

He is the Prince of the Dung Heap, Vitali being King, please don't mention him along Ali and Holmes.

loaded_gloves wrote:You sound very young and new to boxing.

The biggest reason to Wlad's success is the big breasts and guts of his opponents, and their total lack of technical skill.

He is the Prince of the Dung Heap, Vitali being King, please don't mention him along Ali and Holmes.

So by your logic the next muscular man to come through the heavyweight division will KO the Klitschko's

What is your excuse here? David Haye came in very good shape did he not?




How can you not rate Wladimir with the likes of Larry Holmes? Damn man at 37 years old Larry Holmes was finished. Wladimir at 37 is still the #1 heavyweight and still going strong. After Wladimir pulverizes Povetkin he will be alone in 2nd place for longest reigning heavyweight champion in terms of years and days.

I've read your posts and can see you are totally besotted by Wladimir Klitschko.

It's not as simple as 'Larry was finished at 37, therfore Wladimir is better.'

Larry never got decked 12, 13 times - and he was fighting beyond 50.

Larry never got stopped by a 40 year old, fat, semi-retired golfer.

Larry passed tests way beyond Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster too.

Larry Holmes was a dynamic, gutsy fighter who could box and brawl with the best in the world. He came to fight and produced blood & guts thrillers with the elite, when there was an elite. Of course he was a fading force by 37, he'd been through life & death.

You love Wladimir Klitscho, fine. Good for you. Enjoy Wladimir. There's no need for you to bring Ali and Holmes into it. You're not going to get people here to dismiss two Boxing Gods simply because Wladimir whacked a string of Wachs and Pianettas and accumulated 14 defences doing it. It's absurd.

loaded_gloves wrote:I've read your posts and can see you are totally besotted by Wladimir Klitschko.

It's not as simple as 'Larry was finished at 37, therfore Wladimir is better.'

Larry never got decked 12, 13 times - and he was fighting beyond 50.

Larry never got stopped by a 40 year old, fat, semi-retired golfer.

Larry passed tests way beyond Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster too.

Larry Holmes was a dynamic, gutsy fighter who could box and brawl with the best in the world. He came to fight and produced blood & guts thrillers with the elite, when there was an elite. Of course he was a fading force by 37, he'd been through life & death.

You love Wladimir Klitscho, fine. Good for you. Enjoy Wladimir. There's no need for you to bring Ali and Holmes into it. You're not going to get people here to dismiss two Boxing Gods simply because Wladimir whacked a string of Wachs and Pianettas and accumulated 14 defences doing it. It's absurd.

lol

BoxBuzz wrote:it's an interesting discussion, because he also had the luxury of being able to disect, assess, and develop under Ali's skill set. An advantage no one else so talented would ever have.

loaded_gloves wrote:Larry Holmes was a dynamic, gutsy fighter who could box and brawl with the best in the world. He came to fight and produced blood & guts thrillers with the elite, when there was an elite. Of course he was a fading force by 37, he'd been through life & death.

In a way, Ali is underrated, because he did almost everything brilliantly.

Anyway, Holmes is the winner of this. Larry would twist the jab and make a fist, just before it hit the target, for maximum power.

Only Louis was at the same level IMO.

Gotta give Liston some credit for a first class jab as well.

keithmoonhangover wrote:In a way, Ali is underrated, because he did almost everything brilliantly.

Anyway, Holmes is the winner of this. Larry would twist the jab and make a fist, just before it hit the target, for maximum power.

Only Louis was at the same level IMO.

Ali would twist his jab as well. Everything Larry knew, he learned from Ali

CrazyHorse wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:In a way, Ali is underrated, because he did almost everything brilliantly.

Anyway, Holmes is the winner of this. Larry would twist the jab and make a fist, just before it hit the target, for maximum power.

Only Louis was at the same level IMO.

Ali would twist his jab as well. Everything Larry knew, he learned from Ali

That sounds crazy.... Everything Larry learned was from years of hard work, training, and fighting just like every other fighter.
I guess Ali learned how to take big shots from George Chivalo

Don't miss the point speedster. Larry had the rare opportunity to spend time with a great, on his way to becoming a great himself. The man would have been foolish not to pay close attention. Larry weren't no fool, he took advantage of every opportunity that came his way.