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is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 10:45
by stevedoc
i'm a boxing fan that maybe didn't follow it so closely for a few years about 10 -5 years ago and it seems in that time pernell whitaker has gone from being a very good light weight to the greatest defenceive fighter ever and in many (mainly americans) peoples top 10/15 p4p ever .
now i remember whitaker as a very good but negative fighter , maybe i missed something as i see him picked over Duran by some .
is this just me out of date or do the americans rate pernell far to highly .
is pernell an ATG
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i realize sweet pea was good but not sugar ray leonard ,roberto duran good and rated higher than hearns is pushing it for me .
maybe 35 p4p ,with the likes of aaron pryor/ alexis arguello
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 10:47
by lefty
stevedoc wrote:i'm a boxing fan that maybe didn't follow it so closely for a few years about 10 -5 years ago and it seems in that time pernell whitaker has gone from being a very good light weight to the greatest defenceive fighter ever and in many (mainly americans) peoples top 10/15 p4p ever .
now i remember whitaker as a very good but negative fighter , maybe i missed something as i see him picked over Duran by some .
is this just me out of date or do the americans rate pernell far to highly .
is pernell an ATG
Whitaker is definietly an all time great. His style wasnt for everyone but there's no denying his talent.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:22
by hurlock
Most look at Whittaker as undefeated as alot of pundits thought he won v Chavez which was announced a draw & dropped a split decision to Ramirez many felt he was robbed & avenged this result.
He later became a welter & a small one at that & fought dlh who admitted on a tv panel that the reason the judges went for him because he was the young marketable fighter & accepted he may of lost the fight. Also at this stage sweet pea had become a cocaine abuser & the fact he could jump in v giants like dlh & Trinidad & make them look silly showed his genius
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:28
by big lennox
Yes. He was amazing. His defence was simply incredible. Watch his fight with Chavez. He played with a fellow all time great.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:33
by Ezzard
top 10-15 is pushing it.
But he was a remarkable fighter. He was a naturally bigger man than Chavez and turned down the fight at 135. No doubt he got the better of Chavez but he also got him at the right time...in the right division...not saying Chavez would ever have won but the gap was not as big as it seemed on that night.
Pernell probably gets a lot sympathy for that bad decision.
There are probably 4 or 5 lightweights to rate above him so top 10 p4p is too much.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:34
by DMA1987
big lennox wrote:Yes. He was amazing. His defence was simply incredible. Watch his fight with Chavez. He played with a fellow all time great.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:53
by hurlock
Duran is one of my all time favs but if dejesus & Leonard gave him fits you can pretty much guarantee sweet pea would
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 12:23
by spudder56
hurlock wrote:Duran is one of my all time favs but if dejesus & Leonard gave him fits you can pretty much guarantee sweet pea would
X2 but I think a peak Duran would have caught up with Sweet Pea but there is no doubt Sweet Pea was a great boxer
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 16:41
by Arnie
The best Pernell beats the best Floydd Mayweather
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 09 Jul 2013, 16:58
by hurlock
Arnie wrote:The best Pernell beats the best Floydd Mayweather
Elaborate??
Saying that a journeyman in Augustus who had the herky jerky style gave mayweather fits so a master like sweet pea who had a great stabbing jab could have beaten floyd.
Mayweather is remarkable but I feel strongly he has picked his opponents very wisely like making corralles crash down in weight. Boxing an old mosely & a dlh after a 3 year lay off who battled depression & drug addiction
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 01:05
by escobar
Pernell Whitaker is easily an ATG and would of beaten Duran. He had a chin, was elusive and would outbox any of the best 135lbs fighters. Floyd has even commented on Pernell's greatness.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 08:37
by stevedoc
Ezzard wrote:top 10-15 is pushing it.
But he was a remarkable fighter. He was a naturally bigger man than Chavez and turned down the fight at 135. No doubt he got the better of Chavez but he also got him at the right time...in the right division...not saying Chavez would ever have won but the gap was not as big as it seemed on that night.
Pernell probably gets a lot sympathy for that bad decision.
There are probably 4 or 5 lightweights to rate above him so top 10 p4p is too much.
agreed
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 10:47
by Arnie
hurlock wrote:Arnie wrote:The best Pernell beats the best Floydd Mayweather
Elaborate??
Saying that a journeyman in Augustus who had the herky jerky style gave mayweather fits so a master like sweet pea who had a great stabbing jab could have beaten floyd.
Mayweather is remarkable but I feel strongly he has picked his opponents very wisely like making corralles crash down in weight. Boxing an old mosely & a dlh after a 3 year lay off who battled depression & drug addiction
Elaborate ? Well better defensive skills YES I know u will think WTF but he didn't just roll with his shoulder he slipped shots bent his Knesset bobbed and weaved the lot and fought much better opposition! I'm not knocking Floydd he's amazing and an ATG but Pernell was different gravy in my eyes!
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 02:40
by TheGoods
Whitaker deffo an all-time great. And I doubt any man can name me 15 fighters who were clearly superior to him so he's up there. Outrageously gifted defensively. Could command a ring like few before him. And if it wasn't for being partial to a bit of beak who knows what he could have achieved as that stuff weakens anyone who uses it.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 06:37
by el_grande_mauro_mina
Top 3 lightweight for sure, if he hadn't been robbed off the judges regarding Chavez and
Ramirez then I think we could argue for him being placed in the top 15 of all weight classes
of all time. An amazing fighter.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 07:13
by Ezzard
At 135 you have to include
Henry Armstrong
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
I don’t see Whittaker quite in that group. But definitely in the one just below.
Jackie Blackburn
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams
Just my opinion
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 07:45
by Deserter
Ezzard wrote:At 135 you have to include
Henry Armstrong
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
I don’t see Whittaker quite in that group. But definitely in the one just below.
Jackie Blackburn
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams
Just my opinion
Agree completely.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 07:58
by el_grande_mauro_mina
I don't know about Gans or Leonard but it is debatable if Duran would have got the better
of Whittaker who would have been all wrong for him - does Duran have the better overall
resume? I suppose he does, is he the better overall fighter as in he would have beaten
Whittaker? I don't think so, Whittaker would have beaten him handily in my opinion as
well as Armstrong. But then again - I could be wrong - just my hunch.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 11:51
by Deserter
Fat Git wrote:I don't know about Gans or Leonard but it is debatable if Duran would have got the better
of Whittaker who would have been all wrong for him - does Duran have the better overall
resume? I suppose he does, is he the better overall fighter as in he would have beaten
Whittaker? I don't think so, Whittaker would have beaten him handily in my opinion as
well as Armstrong. But then again - I could be wrong - just my hunch.
Prime Lightweight Duran was really something else - Whittaker would never have faced anything like it. Would have been a cracking match-up.
It's purely an aside, but the other thing I've seen mentioned in the past about Whittaker is that his bending below his opponent's waist frequently bordered on illegality but he was never hauled up on it.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 06:58
by stevedoc
Deserter wrote:Ezzard wrote:At 135 you have to include
Henry Armstrong
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
I don’t see Whittaker quite in that group. But definitely in the one just below.
Jackie Blackburn
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams
Just my opinion
i agree too , this is what i meant pernell is a great boxer but so benny leonard ,tony canzoneri ,armstrong
Agree completely.
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 19:33
by Wales
Arnie wrote:The best Pernell beats the best Floydd Mayweather
What an awful fight that wouldve been.
Prime Duran Prime Whittaker wouldve been intriguing. One of the most relentless and ruthless pressure fighters against a defensive genius. Sad story, whittakers. Anyone know what he's up to now? has he kicked the gear and still training?
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 04:26
by Arnie
Hearing he's doin well coaching pro fighters now m8!
Re: is Pernell whitaker really a top 15 p4p fighter
Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 04:36
by orbtastic
He hooked up with Judah not so long back.