BoxRec

When I look at certain divisions, the british scene looks tougher than the European title level. Just wondered what you gents think?

How many Euro champs do we have?

I understand where you're coming from as wondered the same thing myself before now. Truth is it depends on the fighter(s) probably.

I'd offer you Carl Johanneson as a case in point. Floored Ricky Burns 3 times at Leeds town hall, comfortably made the Lonsdale belt his own but couldn't do anything with Leva Kirakosyan.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:I understand where you're coming from as wondered the same thing myself before now. Truth is it depends on the fighter(s) probably.

I'd offer you Carl Johanneson as a case in point. Floored Ricky Burns 3 times at Leeds town hall, comfortably made the Lonsdale belt his own but couldn't do anything with Leva Kirakosyan.

Kirakosyan had world class power though was Euro level in skill; if he'd have had a crack at a stationary world champ he'd have gone straight through them.

palooka wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:I understand where you're coming from as wondered the same thing myself before now. Truth is it depends on the fighter(s) probably.

I'd offer you Carl Johanneson as a case in point. Floored Ricky Burns 3 times at Leeds town hall, comfortably made the Lonsdale belt his own but couldn't do anything with Leva Kirakosyan.

Kirakosyan had world class power though was Euro level in skill; if he'd have had a crack at a stationary world champ he'd have gone straight through them.

I suppose that goes back to the whole matchmaking thing again! Say if you're only world title shot was against Mayweather! It's very unlikely you're going to win and yet you could be better than all the other guys who hold versions of the world title in that weight class.

Carl had lost to Leva earlier in his career inside a round and then done very well against some good domestic men; he was excellent for a couple of years - a very strong fighter; he wanted to avenge the loss and called for a rematch; Leva just hit too hard for him; he was a very damaging puncher; and beat Carl again though Johansson was defiant.

I think Carl's confidence deserted him before the first bell in the second fight tbh. He couldn't get out the way, like a rabbit in the headlights.

Derry Matthews was also blown to pieces by Choi, dropped at least 4 times, but in the Prizefighter rematch he managed to win a decision, which showed a strong mindset as he got absolutely done the first time. Mind you it was mainly body shots whereas Leva was hiting Carl to the head - and Carl himself was a bit of a banger let us not forget.


Another example - and this is merely my take. I saw Michael Hunter jump on a fellow from somewhere like...Siberia, who just never even got going. He'd had much harder fights against Brits.
I also saw him fight a Spaniard called German Guartos. Guartos looked a right handful, he was like an angry bull and came after Hunter for 3 rounds almost relentlessly and then he just seemed to gas and Hunter got stoppage in 4 or 5.
You'd have to ask him but from where I sat that Spaniard was giving him a headache - and you don't expect tough c*nts coming out of Siesta-land, let's be honest...

Put boxnotion on now and you'll have your answer.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote: You'd have to ask him but from where I sat that Spaniard was giving him a headache - and you don't expect tough c*nts coming out of Siesta-land, let's be honest...

Boxing isn't what it was in Spain - but during the 60's and 70's - many physically tough
Spaniards boxed in the UK and gave great performances. Read up on Billy Walker's autobiography
about his fights against Mariano Echerrieva - Walker says even today that he was a hard man.

Hagler2002 wrote:Put boxnotion on now and you'll have your answer.

I just have to see Aaron getting a pasting. Am I missing anything

I think its all bout whose the champion.. I think most are brit champs could win a european now! I fancy my chances anyway

Fat Git wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote: You'd have to ask him but from where I sat that Spaniard was giving him a headache - and you don't expect tough c*nts coming out of Siesta-land, let's be honest...

Boxing isn't what it was in Spain - but during the 60's and 70's - many physically tough
Spaniards boxed in the UK and gave great performances. Read up on Billy Walker's autobiography
about his fights against Mariano Echerrieva - Walker says even today that he was a hard man.

When the gloves came off - Billy Walker

I've owned it for about 4 years but I've only read about half a chapter

I knew is was a naïve blanket assumption when I wrote it to be fair. If you look at the Hispanics that come out of Mexico and the like, maybe you'd expect more from Spain...

Frankie Gavin wrote:I think its all bout whose the champion.. I think most are brit champs could win a european now! I fancy my chances anyway

I agree Frankie. Some of the european champions out there arent great! I think Rabchenko who Hatton trains is decent though! I dont see Rose beating him.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote: You'd have to ask him but from where I sat that Spaniard was giving him a headache - and you don't expect tough c*nts coming out of Siesta-land, let's be honest...

Boxing isn't what it was in Spain - but during the 60's and 70's - many physically tough
Spaniards boxed in the UK and gave great performances. Read up on Billy Walker's autobiography
about his fights against Mariano Echerrieva - Walker says even today that he was a hard man.

When the gloves came off - Billy Walker

I've owned it for about 4 years but I've only read about half a chapter

I knew is was a naïve blanket assumption when I wrote it to be fair. If you look at the Hispanics that come out of Mexico and the like, maybe you'd expect more from Spain...

In a lot of the former Spanish empire - Mexico, Philippines and Puerto Rico - there are lots of great fighters but they are usually Spanish mixed with Indian, Asian and African blood - in a lot of cases, there is no Spanish DNA at all. In regards toughness and culture - it is like comparing a Frenchmen of today to the Quebecois who are tough people - I think what it is - all the hard Spanish left for the Americas and left all the wimps there - same with the French/Quebecois or the Dutch and the Afrikaners.

I have a signed copy of Walkers book. Not read it yet though.

mickey1975 wrote:I have a signed copy of Walkers book. Not read it yet though.

It's a great book. He covers a lot of his life and is honest. He retired a very rich man and
basically had a nice time since.

it use to be that a british champ would go for the european before going for a world belt , like honeyghan ,mcguigan and bruno did but now many of the world champs are european so the euro belt has lost a lot of credit as it's rare that the best european fighter actualy has the euro belt . a quick look at the top few weights shows that european fighter are indeed the best in the world from the klit bros ,marco huck and nathan cleverly .
i think both british and european fighter have got better or the americans have got worse

johanesson, vs kirakosyan...also derry Mathews vs marsili...foster jr v fegatili (after beating kirakosyan)...domestic veterans all losing.

whereas, we've had Jamie McDonnell beating a couple of good euro fighters, arnoud and especially jamoye...john murray dominating kudriavtsev....McDonnell obviously very adaptable, murray extremely big/strong at the weight...

just depends who, doesn't it.

McDonnell a great example, winning british, commonwealth & European before building to the world title win.

Jon Thaxton had a good run as British champion and beat some good men in style but the high level European Title class men were too much; the gulf was obvious.