BoxRec

How, can the EBU sanction Witter vs Down, this is not a dig at Hennessey it is infact a compliment on his behalf he has provide Witter with an easy path of winning one of the most prostigious belts out there.

Down is Witter's sparring partner, its going to be a mear exhibition bout. Without meaning to be disrespectful to Down but I am sure he KNOWS that he's no threat to Witter or he would be his sparring partner.

I'm not criticising the match, its probably all Mick could have done (like FW last week). However, the EBU should hold itself more firmly. I don't particularly care who the IBO, WBU, WBF etc deam worthy challengers - I do though with the European belt. That traditionally means automatic entry into the worlds top ten in the independent rankings. Its a belt that demonstrates your competance as a boxer and I believe all European champions should be considered for world titles. However, Witter will win this by fighting his sparring partner.

What about an interim European championship.

stujones wrote:How, can the EBU sanction Witter vs Down, this is not a dig at Hennessey it is infact a compliment on his behalf he has provide Witter with an easy path of winning one of the most prostigious belts out there.

Down is Witter's sparring partner, its going to be a mear exhibition bout. Without meaning to be disrespectful to Down but I am sure he KNOWS that he's no threat to Witter or he would be his sparring partner.

I'm not criticising the match, its probably all Mick could have done (like FW last week). However, the EBU should hold itself more firmly. I don't particularly care who the IBO, WBU, WBF etc deam worthy challengers - I do though with the European belt. That traditionally means automatic entry into the worlds top ten in the independent rankings. Its a belt that demonstrates your competance as a boxer and I believe all European champions should be considered for world titles. However, Witter will win this by fighting his sparring partner.

What about an interim European championship.

This stinks as much as Pinto's pullout. I'm getting sick of these big fights falling through at the last minute and an easy opponent coming in to guarantee a win for the house fighter. The paying fans are being cheated and the game in this country is getting a bad name.
The buck stops with the promoter. Warren has been slated for the Pinto affair; now it's Mick Hennessy under the spotlight. We need to know why a leading fighter pulled out of his show just an hour before the weigh-in? Surely, if Battaglia was ill, he would have pulled out as soon as possible in the day. But an hour before the weigh-in!
As I say, this stinks.

And to top it off, Gavin Down trains with Witter.

Southpaw Stylist wrote:And to top it off, Gavin Down trains with Witter.

From today's Sheffield Star:

Brendan's boxing club hit by raid

LEGENDARY boxing coach Brendan Ingle has been dealt a devastating blow by thugs who trashed his club for up-and-coming champs on a Sheffield estate.
Youths smashed their way into the Manor Boys and Girls boxing club, stealing hundreds of pounds worth of equipment owned by children.
Ripped boxing gloves and pads were found strewn outside the gym and Brendan fears poor kids may give up boxing as they cannot afford to buy more equipment.
National ABA champ Stephen Barnes, aged 12, discovered the scene of devastation when he turned up with his dad for an early morning training session.
Smashed glass covered the floor and the thieves had plundered goods beneath the boxing ring – the kids' hiding place for their precious boxing gear.
It is the sixth time the club on Prince of Wales Road has been broken into since it was opened five years ago by Brendan, former coach to ex-world champion Prince Naseem Hamed.
For many, the club serves as a way out from the streets, providing a warm environment where they can excel at something .
Brendan told The Star: "You try and help kids round here, but some are just ignorant. It's mindless vandalism.
"I grew up on the Manor estate and the houses are beautiful, it's people's attitudes that need to change or they'll end up in prison. It's sad."
It is believed the thieves broke into the building by smashing a reinforced window six feet up and climbing through the jagged hole.
Once inside they barged through a pair of heavy fire doors before stealing as much as they could carry, including weight lifting equipment.
Now Brendan and club trainer Steve Barnes are considering upping security measures once they have paid for repairs, estimated at £1,000.
Steve said: "I've salvaged what I can for the kids, but a lot of the stuff is lost, gone or damaged beyond repair. There's no sense in stealing one glove or boxing pad, but that's what they have done.
"Some of these kids' parents haven't got a bean but they scraped together another cash to buy equipment."

15 April 2004

Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I am sure I read a recent thread here or in the current scene which referred to a fighter being punished (eg. stripped of his belt or promoter was banned etc) when it was discovered that a match (title match possibly) was between a fighter and his sparring partner. It stated it was illegal to do this (I think.)

It struck me at the time because I wondered why it would have been illegal/punishable. I was going to ask about it but left it.

Does someone know more about this?

stujones wrote:Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

How many boxing scandals that actually recieve an investigation actually find anything of note. Investigate away and if some FACTS occur that does point the finger, then I'll of course be full of rant. Untill that happens, its usually word against word and I with that its better not to point the finger.

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

How many boxing scandals that actually recieve an investigation actually find anything of note. Investigate away and if some FACTS occur that does point the finger, then I'll of course be full of rant. Untill that happens, its usually word against word and I with that its better not to point the finger.

You want to know why the EBU allowed Gavin Down to contest a European title. But you don't want to know the events that led to his name being put forward in the first place.
We need to know the full story. Not just the end piece.

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

Same thing happend with Silvio Branco vs Thomas Ulrich, Ulrich got ill Drews stepped in and won the fight.

Freiheit wrote:

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:Oh yes, this is very similar to the Pinto vs Hatton thing.... I personally think (and this is not a view because of the announcement) that promotors have got a hard enough job as it is and sometimes hae unfair criticism by people who do not have access to the facts. You will see that I am often prepared to give ALL promoters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pull outs, the same applies for the fighters. What I don't like is that a respected belt is on the line in this fight.

However, if people start saying that this situation is different from the one last week and contradicts themselves (i.e. going mad for last weeks events, but not for this one) I don't think I'd be amused. Like I said, while I was dissopointed about Pinto not fighting, I don't want to point the finger at anyone.

Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

Same thing happend with Silvio Branco vs Thomas Ulrich, Ulrich got ill Drews stepped in and won the fight.

Yeah, I was at the show in Berlin (on the Danny Williams-Samil Sam bill). The crowd were actually shown pictures (on the screens over the ring) of Ulrich being examined by the doctor and ruled out of the fight. Even after that, the promoter came into the ring and explained the situation in full, as the German crowd booed and hissed him mercilessly.
Now let's hear Hennessy explain this in full.

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote: Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

How many boxing scandals that actually recieve an investigation actually find anything of note. Investigate away and if some FACTS occur that does point the finger, then I'll of course be full of rant. Untill that happens, its usually word against word and I with that its better not to point the finger.

You want to know why the EBU allowed Gavin Down to contest a European title. But you don't want to know the events that led to his name being put forward in the first place.
We need to know the full story. Not just the end piece.

Of course I would like to know but I doubt we'll ever find out, thats the difference. Untill we do I tend to give people the benefit. Eugina Williams claimed Holyfield won the fifth round of their fight - she said from a view she thought Holyfield won it, although later has admited that on television it looked a clear Lewis round. She's admited her wrongs, she said her card wasn't rigged but it is still only her word - I'd like to give her the benefit and call it human error.

What is CLEAR is that the EBU have sanctioned this fight - so I think fingers can point at them. Mick doesn't need to be criticised for asking the EBU, he was doing his best for the promotion by trying to get a meaningful fight on it. However, the EBU as a proud and prestigious organisation should have said NO.

Its innocent untill PROVEN guilty and I doubt there will be any investigation and if there is it will find nothing substancial. Therefore, it would be wrong of me to start accusing - however, by sanctioning this fight the EBU have downgraded the belt.

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote: How many boxing scandals that actually recieve an investigation actually find anything of note. Investigate away and if some FACTS occur that does point the finger, then I'll of course be full of rant. Untill that happens, its usually word against word and I with that its better not to point the finger.

You want to know why the EBU allowed Gavin Down to contest a European title. But you don't want to know the events that led to his name being put forward in the first place.
We need to know the full story. Not just the end piece.

Of course I would like to know but I doubt we'll ever find out, thats the difference. Untill we do I tend to give people the benefit. Eugina Williams claimed Holyfield won the fifth round of their fight - she said from a view she thought Holyfield won it, although later has admited that on television it looked a clear Lewis round. She's admited her wrongs, she said her card wasn't rigged but it is still only her word - I'd like to give her the benefit and call it human error.

What is CLEAR is that the EBU have sanctioned this fight - so I think fingers can point at them. Mick doesn't need to be criticised for asking the EBU, he was doing his best for the promotion by trying to get a meaningful fight on it. However, the EBU as a proud and prestigious organisation should have said NO.

Its innocent untill PROVEN guilty and I doubt there will be any investigation and if there is it will find nothing substancial. Therefore, it would be wrong of me to start accusing - however, by sanctioning this fight the EBU have downgraded the belt.

You seem to think I'm accusing Mick Hennessy of complicity in the Kennedy murder. Wrong. If you're unhappy with the service in a hotel, who do you complain to? The manager. In this case, the buck stops with the promoter. It's his show. His responsibility.

bennie wrote:

Freiheit wrote:

bennie wrote: Point the finger! Since when does a European title challenger pull out an hour before the weigh-in to the fight? It's unprecedented. It's scandalous. It needs to be investigated.

Same thing happend with Silvio Branco vs Thomas Ulrich, Ulrich got ill Drews stepped in and won the fight.

Yeah, I was at the show in Berlin (on the Danny Williams-Samil Sam bill). The crowd were actually shown pictures (on the screens over the ring) of Ulrich being examined by the doctor and ruled out of the fight. Even after that, the promoter came into the ring and explained the situation in full, as the German crowd booed and hissed him mercilessly.
Now let's hear Hennessy explain this in full.

Now thats an all together different matter, I was refering to some independent investigation. Yes, got to give FW his dues that letter that John Shep had in the announcement certainly explain alot about the situation regarding the April the 5th fight. I also believed he has cleared things up on the website aswell. The article the FW has objected to is misleading and all I am saying is that I don't personally like to slag off or point fingers at anybody untill the facts are out.

If a statement comes out saying that the Italian had food poisioning and started vomitting an hour before weigh in, I'd give all the benefit.

Today EBU made Mikkel Kessler mandatory challenger for Mads Larsen eventhough they have the same manager/promotor and trainer and they have trained together for several years so its probably not against the rules to fight a sparringpartner as long as he is rated by the EBU (Down is rated #14)

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote: You want to know why the EBU allowed Gavin Down to contest a European title. But you don't want to know the events that led to his name being put forward in the first place.
We need to know the full story. Not just the end piece.

Of course I would like to know but I doubt we'll ever find out, thats the difference. Untill we do I tend to give people the benefit. Eugina Williams claimed Holyfield won the fifth round of their fight - she said from a view she thought Holyfield won it, although later has admited that on television it looked a clear Lewis round. She's admited her wrongs, she said her card wasn't rigged but it is still only her word - I'd like to give her the benefit and call it human error.

What is CLEAR is that the EBU have sanctioned this fight - so I think fingers can point at them. Mick doesn't need to be criticised for asking the EBU, he was doing his best for the promotion by trying to get a meaningful fight on it. However, the EBU as a proud and prestigious organisation should have said NO.

Its innocent untill PROVEN guilty and I doubt there will be any investigation and if there is it will find nothing substancial. Therefore, it would be wrong of me to start accusing - however, by sanctioning this fight the EBU have downgraded the belt.

You seem to think I'm accusing Mick Hennessy of complicity in the Kennedy murder. Wrong. If you're unhappy with the service in a hotel, who do you complain to? The manager. In this case, the buck stops with the promoter. It's his show. His responsibility.

Okay, think I understand you - the term investigation got me all a bit too serious

Oh yeah, I'd would like to ask Mick what going on and I think it is really his job to explain, what I am saying is that I won't buy into all the conspiracy theories (like FW suffered) after the explanation was given (Pinto had a fever).

Mick is likely to say something concerning the Italians health, I am going to give him the benefit that whatever he says is the truth.

OwainCymru wrote:Stu, did you post in the FW threads last week that have now been moved?

Just seems to me that you are going right out of your way not to criticise/point the finger at any one person/promoter.

No.

Like I said only someones word against another, but I am peeved at the EBU for sanctioning this fight. The European title is a prestigious belt yet this is something I'd expect for International belts or the Commonwealth belt.

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote:

Freiheit wrote: Same thing happend with Silvio Branco vs Thomas Ulrich, Ulrich got ill Drews stepped in and won the fight.

Yeah, I was at the show in Berlin (on the Danny Williams-Samil Sam bill). The crowd were actually shown pictures (on the screens over the ring) of Ulrich being examined by the doctor and ruled out of the fight. Even after that, the promoter came into the ring and explained the situation in full, as the German crowd booed and hissed him mercilessly.
Now let's hear Hennessy explain this in full.

Now thats an all together different matter, I was refering to some independent investigation. Yes, got to give FW his dues that letter that John Shep had in the announcement certainly explain alot about the situation regarding the April the 5th fight. I also believed he has cleared things up on the website aswell. The article the FW has objected to is misleading and all I am saying is that I don't personally like to slag off or point fingers at anybody untill the facts are out.

If a statement comes out saying that the Italian had food poisioning and started vomitting an hour before weigh in, I'd give all the benefit.

Battaglia is a big light-welter who would not be eating an hour before the weigh-in. Now, I'm no doctor, but if he had gastroenteritis he would surely have been feeling and looking rough. Why pull out an hour before the weigh-in in that case? Why not wait till the weigh-in and let the assembled press and Hennessy's camp see for themselves how ill you are!
Maybe he did. I don't know. But I want to know, if that's okay with you Stu.

bennie wrote:

stujones wrote:

bennie wrote: Yeah, I was at the show in Berlin (on the Danny Williams-Samil Sam bill). The crowd were actually shown pictures (on the screens over the ring) of Ulrich being examined by the doctor and ruled out of the fight. Even after that, the promoter came into the ring and explained the situation in full, as the German crowd booed and hissed him mercilessly.
Now let's hear Hennessy explain this in full.

Now thats an all together different matter, I was refering to some independent investigation. Yes, got to give FW his dues that letter that John Shep had in the announcement certainly explain alot about the situation regarding the April the 5th fight. I also believed he has cleared things up on the website aswell. The article the FW has objected to is misleading and all I am saying is that I don't personally like to slag off or point fingers at anybody untill the facts are out.

If a statement comes out saying that the Italian had food poisioning and started vomitting an hour before weigh in, I'd give all the benefit.

Battaglia is a big light-welter who would not be eating an hour before the weigh-in. Now, I'm no doctor, but if he had gastroenteritis he would surely have been feeling and looking rough. Why pull out an hour before the fight in that case? Why not wait till the weigh-in and let the assembled press and Hennessy's camp see for themselves how ill you are!
Maybe he did. I don't know. But I want to know, if that's okay with you Stu.

8)

Note, my hypothetical "explanation" didn't state he ate an hour before the weigh in. I could get some legal action for for gross misinterpretation

Seriously, I think we are on the same wavelength (I agree entirely) its just that term investigation got me all a bit wound up.

I'm having a go to you, Stu. Not at you. It's frustrating when these fights fall out - but even more frustrating when promoters seem to get away with it time and again. We all know who the worst offender is, but Howard Eastman gets a late sub, Carl Froch gets a late sub, and now this.
Just sickening.

OwainCymru wrote:I take your point about the EBU, they were wrong to sanction this fight.
However, all of Bennie's posts have been bang on for me. The buck stops with the promoter; it's his show and he should answer for it. WE pay our money and WE should receive an adequate explanation. Alternatively, of course, it is our right not to go to any of these shows, then maybe (in an ideal world) promoters will think twice before feeding us second rate alternatives.

Oh yeah, absolutely I agree - my post have been misjudged. Yes the promotor should explain, but once he's done that then that is it. Also, give the promoter the time to explain - its all happening so fast I am sure he's is not exactly sure what is going on.

Ask questions why by all means, but I won't discuss any conspirancy theories. Like I said Eugina Williams fully explained herself, but then some journo's continued to question by writing articles saying "We were positioned right behind her and scored the round/fight for Lewis clearly" - its stuff like that I don't like.

Even if not a clear answer is obtained, by all means publish the fact that a promoter couldn't state why the opponent didn't turn up and mention that in future show as in "be aware public, the opponents might not be the ones in the poster" - but even if no explaination is given to try to suggest a reasoning why such a fighter didn't show (like has been done in the past) is wrong.