BoxRec

These ratings show just what a joke the WBA had become in the 1960s. The organization which started with an extremely noble cause back the 1920s had devolved into utter nuttiness by this point.

FFS stop comparing everybody to Brain London, we know he wasn't a good opponent but it was an easy way to make some quick easy money while he was doing his tour of europe.

Il Duce wrote: WBA Ratings {June 1, 1966}

*** Ernie Terrell
#1.. Zora Folley
#2.. Doug Jones
#3.. Amos Lincoln
#4.. Karl Mildenberger
#5.. Thad Spencer
#6.. Floyd Patterson
#7.. Eduardo Corletti
#8.. Elmer Rush
#9.. Amos Johnson
#10 George Chuvalo

To compare, here's the Ring Magazine ratings going into the Terrell - Jones bout:

The Ring - August 1966
(as of June 20, 1966)

World Champion:
Muhammad Ali
1. Ernie Terrell
2. Doug Jones
3. Thad Spencer
4. Karl Mildenberger
5. Henry Cooper
6. Zora Folley
7. Amos Lincoln
8. George Chuvalo
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Cleveland Williams

Il Duce wrote: WBA Ratings {June 1, 1966}

*** Ernie Terrell
#1.. Zora Folley
#2.. Doug Jones
#3.. Amos Lincoln
#4.. Karl Mildenberger
#5.. Thad Spencer
#6.. Floyd Patterson
#7.. Eduardo Corletti
#8.. Elmer Rush
#9.. Amos Johnson
#10 George Chuvalo

As a comparison, here are the Ring Magazine ratings leading up to the Terrell-Jones fight:


The Ring - August 1966
(as of June 20, 1966)

World Champion:
Muhammad Ali
1. Ernie Terrell
2. Doug Jones
3. Thad Spencer
4. Karl Mildenberger
5. Henry Cooper
6. Zora Folley
7. Amos Lincoln
8. George Chuvalo
9. Floyd Patterson
10. Cleveland Williams

Im not sure what point you are trying to make in bringing up Mildenberger. Are you saying that he was also undeserving of a shot at London? or That Ali should have fought him on his tour? Because he did fight him. If you are saying he didnt deserve a shot then you dont know what you are talking about. He was the EBU champion and had one of the most impressive, if not THE most impressive records in Europe for a heavyweight. He was always in great shape, smart, had a good amateur pedegree, and awkward with a southpaw style. It didnt hurt that he was rated in the top ten by everyone, as high as #3 by more than one source. A world champion is exactly that, a world champion. A fight between he and Spencer in 1966 would have been 50/50 at best. I might even favor Mildenberger. I would certainly favor Mildenberger over Doug Jones in 1966. In short Mildenberger was a perfectly acceptable defense and on par with anyone else you have offered up as an alternative.

klompton wrote:Im not sure what point you are trying to make in bringing up Mildenberger. Are you saying that he was also undeserving of a shot at London? or That Ali should have fought him on his tour? Because he did fight him. If you are saying he didnt deserve a shot then you dont know what you are talking about. He was the EBU champion and had one of the most impressive, if not THE most impressive records in Europe for a heavyweight. He was always in great shape, smart, had a good amateur pedegree, and awkward with a southpaw style. It didnt hurt that he was rated in the top ten by everyone, as high as #3 by more than one source. A world champion is exactly that, a world champion. A fight between he and Spencer in 1966 would have been 50/50 at best. I might even favor Mildenberger. I would certainly favor Mildenberger over Doug Jones in 1966. In short Mildenberger was a perfectly acceptable defense and on par with anyone else you have offered up as an alternative.

I agree.

And isn't this whole exercise also muted by the fact that Ali fought Terrell and dominated him?

dempseyfire wrote:

klompton wrote:Im not sure what point you are trying to make in bringing up Mildenberger. Are you saying that he was also undeserving of a shot at London? or That Ali should have fought him on his tour? Because he did fight him. If you are saying he didnt deserve a shot then you dont know what you are talking about. He was the EBU champion and had one of the most impressive, if not THE most impressive records in Europe for a heavyweight. He was always in great shape, smart, had a good amateur pedegree, and awkward with a southpaw style. It didnt hurt that he was rated in the top ten by everyone, as high as #3 by more than one source. A world champion is exactly that, a world champion. A fight between he and Spencer in 1966 would have been 50/50 at best. I might even favor Mildenberger. I would certainly favor Mildenberger over Doug Jones in 1966. In short Mildenberger was a perfectly acceptable defense and on par with anyone else you have offered up as an alternative.

I agree.

And isn't this whole exercise also muted by the fact that Ali fought Terrell and dominated him?

Seems that way to me.

I saw the Cosell/Ali Wide World of Sports telecast where portions were replayed. Quite fiery.

Il Duce wrote:

Rover wrote:I saw the Cosell/Ali Wide World of Sports telecast where portions were replayed. Quite fiery.

Note sure what Ernie Terrell was attempting to do in the Ring that night, but he had no
game plan.

Pressing forward with two left feet, he looked like a young 'wobbling' Giraffe, and had
absolutely 'Zero' power behind his punches.

He got owned.

Ali had a funny habit of making people look like they had no gameplan.

klompton wrote:Ali had a funny habit of making people look like they had no gameplan.

Yes, he did. He kept saying "What's my name?" to Terrell, too. Same as with Patterson.

Il Duce wrote:Big Ernie really got Cassius mad when he made fun of him for failing the U. S. Military
Aptitude Test.

Ernie said, "You have to be a near Idiot to fail that test. I have no idea why the Army wants
him anyway. The last thing you'd want is that Clown in a Fox-Hole with you. He'd get us all killed."

And he paid the price for those comments.

"Note to self, dont make Ali mad..."

klompton wrote:
"Note to self, dont make Ali mad..."

Good advice.

Il Duce wrote:More Big Ernie,

"Cassius is good fighter, but he will always have that stigma of being a failure when it
comes to mental capacity. I'd hate to have people call me an Idiot or a Dim-Wit
behind my back. Even his own people talk about him behind his back. Of course
when they are around him they kiss his butt and humor him. But inside they know
he's got no brains."

He sure got punished for all of that.

Yeah he came off as a real dummy. LOL. You are too much.

klompton wrote:Yeah he came off as a real dummy. LOL. You are too much.

Terrell was the dummy in that situation; he just got himself a worse beating.

Il Duce wrote:Ernie Terrell,

"Cassius called me up, and told me about these Silver Spaceships in the sky that were
hovering over him, sending him energy. He even said they came down and let him get
in and sit behind the controls."

"Now I've seen that Clown drive his Eldorado and he's downright dangerous. If he did
take control of that spaceship, he'd probably steer it into the Astrodome."

Just earned himself more of a beating.

I didnt realize he and Ali competed in that competition. What a bitter, moronic comment.

Ernie Terrell went out of his way to try to piss Ali off. He, like you, insisted on calling him by a name that he made clear he was a good way to get an ass kicked and thats exactly what happened. Ernie played dumb at the time like he didnt know what he was doing but he has since admitted that he was trying to get Ali's goat. It obviously worked, much to Ernie's detriment. You clearly wish Ernie, and just about anyone else, had beaten Ali and resent the fact that Ali didnt just win fights like that but dominated them easily. For whatever reason you have a bug up your ass about Ali. Its obvious to anyone and it really throws your objectivity completely out of whack. Did Ali punish Terrell? Yes. Did Terrell instigate it? Yes. The real question here is what did Ali do to you?

You are the one who gleefully quoted Terrell's insults about Ali. You are the one who made the snide comment about Ali's current condition. Yes, Terrell did bring that beating on himself. Nobody said Terrell couldnt play mind games but thats what happens when they backfire on you. You get your ass kicked. Dont try to play the downey innocent all of a sudden you knew exactly what you were doing when quoted Terrell and made those comments. Its what youve been doing all along, you get pinned into a corner on an argument you cant back up and then you redirect it. What it all boils down to is that Terrell was not as good as Ali, he was given a paper title that belonged to Ali, he tried to play games with a superior fighter, he ended up angering that fighter and what he got in return was a prolonged beating. He was bitter about it and has been ever since. His comments about Ali's intellect sound ridiculous. Ali was no genius but he was no less intelligent than Terrell, thats for sure, and that fact has been proven over countless interviews between the two of them. Any argument to the contrary is just petty bitterness from a guy who had an agenda.

What a shocker, you try to spin a dominant, easy victory for Ali into a negative.