BoxRec

Il Duce wrote:More on 'Atom Amos' Johnson

May 27, 1966

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... o-dt5bfxig

Was it Amos Johnson who was Liston's sparring partner or Amos Lincoln?

Remember hearing Milt Bailey talking about Liston sparring them...talking of Liston ' He was soo powerful...honest to god, when he jabbed you it was like punching someone....and he hit (Johnson) with a left hook and Johnson's helmet flew off and we thought his head had flew off ya know' . . I am reciting from memory....loved Milt Bailey...

Bonavena floored Chuvalo also.

I have the complete film of London-Johnson. It was a sloppy fight. Partly because Johnson had no stamina and partly because London had no technique. As London admitted, he was not a boxer but he was always in great shape. That was the difference in this fight. Johnson was breathing hard by the second or third round. He continuously led with his head and was warned for it on several occasions. London was winning handily when Johnson came in with his head for the umpteenth time and was sent to his corner by the referee symbolizing the end of the fight. About the only thing Johnson brought to the table was his strength but even that wasnt enough. Had the fight continued he might have even been stopped. Early in the fight he continually returned to his corner breathing heavily and looking very discouraged. On a couple of occasions London hurt Johnson and Johnson had no answer. It was basically a case of one fighter being in better shape than his opponent.

Il Duce wrote:For some reason this bout did not turn out well, maybe a bad Match-Up of styles.

Amos Johnson had 10% of his fight purse $700 withheld for improper actions it the Ring.

Not the 'Atom Amos' who had Karl Mildenberger in all sorts of trouble during the last 3-Rounds
of their November 1964 Bout in Germany, or the impressive 'Atom Amos' who won a dominating fight
against Henry Cooper in October 1965.

Tough one to figure out, as Brian London was 'not very good'.

Later, 'Atom Amos' admitted that ring inactivity and the inability to get good bouts in America
in 1965 and 1966 took its toll 'mentally', and he lost interest while in Europe in 1966.

How much footage of London have you seen??

I can only remember Ali making him look so poor....

eb

klompton wrote:Bonavena floored Chuvalo also.

No, a pushdown is not a knockdown.

Whatever. It was no pushdown. Chuvalo went down on the end of a punch which every ref knows is a knockdown. One of those knockdowns was borderline, but one was as legit as it gets. Anyone who says otherwise just wants to continue the myth of Chuvalos invincibility.

Johnson started the fouling against London. It wasnt so much intentional as it was just carelessness and sloppyness but he did it so often the ref was forced to do something. He had warned Johnson several times. Either way Johnson was nothing special. He was just a strong guy. He was really slow and easy to hit with bad stamina.

The ref called them pushes. He had no myth to protect. And I don't give a sh*t about any so-called "myth of Chuvalos [sic] invincibility." Frazier inflicted real damage and disproved any myth of invincibility anyway. They were pushes, not knockdowns.

keep telling yourself that george...

klompton wrote:keep telling yourself that george...

Back at ya, Ringo . . .

klompton wrote:keep telling yourself that george...

Back at ya, Ringo . . .

Il Duce wrote:I got Atom Amos Johnson easily getting past Round 8 against Cassius Clay, probably 10 or 11 Rounds in 1966.

Good [middle-ranking fighter] who had a few good wins, and on a good night could handle himself pretty
well.

Ali would have carved Amos Johnson up like a Christmas turkey. No speed. No stamina. Not a huge puncher. In short he had nothing to combat Ali and would have been one of his lesser opponents.

So you think they would have fought for three rounds under amateur rules with Ali weighing 175 and standing three inches shorter and being far less experienced and mature?

Ok, so if you admit that every single circumstance sorrounding the fight would be different then lets not pretend that an amateur fight nearly a decade earlier would have any bearing at all on the outcome of a championship match. But by all means if you want to go out there and talk about how Ali ducked Amos Johnson because he was afraid of him and would have lost to him then go on, I look forward to the responses that will get you.

HAHAHA! Hilarious. Youve obviously never seen Amos Johnson box. He had lead feet, bad stamina, very little hand speed and no combination punching. He was a stationary target and easy to hit. He was physically strong but had just decent power at best. This is your savior that would have rid the division of Ali?

Are we talking about a 17 year old vs a 20 year old or are we talking about the heavyweight champion vs a guy who between 1966 and 1968 won one fight against a cannon fodder opponent? You seem to have such a hard time with context.

Its simple: Class tells. Ali had it, Johnson didnt.

Il Duce wrote:How do know what would have happened between Amos Johnson and Cassius Clay in 1966.

You don't....

In this case I would say its a pretty safe assumption, How do you know that in 1959 Johnson beats Clay? Or is that just an assumption?

Il Duce wrote:

p4p1 wrote:

Il Duce wrote:How do know what would have happened between Amos Johnson and Cassius Clay in 1966.

You don't....

In this case I would say its a pretty safe assumption, How do you know that in 1959 Johnson beats Clay? Or is that just an assumption?

That's A Fact.....

OK and your belief that he beats him in 1960 at the Olympic trials and goes to the Olympics would that be an assumption or a fact?

Il Duce wrote:April 30, 1959

Amos Johnson defeats Cassius Clay at the Pan Am Game Trials, and then goes on to handily win
the 1959 Pan Am Games.

'Atom Amos' Johnson was regarded as the best United States Amateur at {81 Kg} 178 lbs. Light-Heavyweight.

This forced Cassius to move up the +81 Kg {Heavyweight}, where he could utilize his speed over the
'lumbering types'.

No reason not to think that Amos Johnson wouldn't have won the 1960 United States {81 Kg} Olympic Trials
or have at least been the Pre-Tournament favorite........

Fair Assessment.........

The Olympic trial were a year later it is a reasonable assumption that some as naturally talented as Ali makes a big jump in ability from the ages of 17 - 18, That was Ali's last loss as an amateur it's reasonable to say in that year from just turning 17 to turning 18 he improved drastically as many people do around that age when they train hard.

Il Duce wrote:Possible,

Hard to think that Atom Amos wouldn't have been better at age 21 too.

He had a 59-2 Amateur Record.

Did you know that in 1960, Cassius was truly a 185 lb. Heavyweight, and had to
sweat down to get down to {81 Kg} 178 lbs.

He was going to compete at Heavyweight at the 1960 Olympic Trials, but the Boxing Team
wanted him to drop down one level, where he would have a better chance of a Gold Medal
if he got to the Rome Olympics in 1960.

This is true which is why it is all just speculation. Though in my experience the change from 17 - 18 is normally bigger than 20 - 21. Maybe he would of beaten Clay in the trials maybe Clay is too good for him by the time he is 18.