BoxRec

Following Nathan Cleverly's fourth round stoppage loss to Sergei Kovalev tonight. One of the first questions that I found myself asking was simply, of all four of the British World Champions we had going up to Saturday night, was Nathan Cleverly the one who was most vulnerable in losing his World title. Because he always seemed to be matched very carefully by allegedly when you look at Krasniqi, Hawk and Tommy Karpency on his slat, none of them could really bang or were really that quick on their feet or with the hands. In Kovalev you had a well schooled fighter with quick hands and stinging power in both hands. So was this a gamble by Warren to prove this theory or wrong or perhaps is Cleverly not as good as we first thought?

I have said many times, I do not care at all about Clev for exactly tonights reason, I feel nothing at all, not even vaugly interested

It was a gamble to take in order to get American TV thinking about Nathan which would make the unifications possibly a bit easier to make.

The public now only have a certain tolerance for really poor voluntary defences. I think we can accept easier voluntary defences if we know that the next mandatory challenger is gonna be a tough fight but when it's like 3 or 4 back to back poor voluntaries....well you know.

jameswilson wrote:
The public now only have a certain tolerance for really poor voluntary defences. I think we can accept easier voluntary defences if we know that the next mandatory challenger is gonna be a tough fight but when it's like 3 or 4 back to back poor voluntaries....well you know.

His career has been handled just like the early 2000 warren fighters, when there was a SN monopoly, and Warren had more fighters and the wbu. Difference is, as you say, weve got wise (ish).

Nathan can come again, but have boxing fans really ever been that excited about cleverly, bellew?

Wales wrote:

jameswilson wrote:
The public now only have a certain tolerance for really poor voluntary defences. I think we can accept easier voluntary defences if we know that the next mandatory challenger is gonna be a tough fight but when it's like 3 or 4 back to back poor voluntaries....well you know.

His career has been handled just like the early 2000 warren fighters, when there was a SN monopoly, and Warren had more fighters and the wbu.

Careful. CAREFUL!!!!!!

That was a really good card tonight; some very good bouts. Nathan got beat by a very good fighter, someone who he wanted and asked to box. If he'd have not boxed him then he's have most likely won v a lesser boxer and been called for it. Nathan took his lumps, tried his best and though he was better than he was - same as us all really eh but our defeats not on telly and in front of our friends.

I think clev can really fight. As you have stated his opponents for world title fights I can't imagine contesting ever again for world titles.
He got hurt faced a strong opponent & couldn't adapt & find a way to win. He needs a proper coach & set up & has the ability to bounce back

palooka wrote:That was a really good card tonight; some very good bouts. Nathan got beat by a very good fighter, someone who he wanted and asked to box. If he'd have not boxed him then he's have most likely won v a lesser boxer and been called for it. Nathan took his lumps, tried his best and though he was better than he was - same as us all really eh but our defeats not on telly and in front of our friends.

I think the promoters are definitely upping their game.

It was a good card admittedly, but when was Warren's last genuinely good card? O_o

iamasadlittleboy wrote:It was a good card admittedly, but when was Warren's last genuinely good card? O_o

The Magnificent 7 Bill was fantastic, but apart from that I am really having to have a good old rummage on here. But More recently
Echo Arena, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom view

Frankie Gavin W Curtis Woodhouse SD 12 12x3


John Murray L Kevin Mitchell TKO 8 12x3


Ricky Burns W Nicky Cook TKO 1 12x3


Tony Bellew W Ovill McKenzie UD 12 12x3


Ronnie Heffron W Barrie Jones PTS 6 6x3


Craig Evans W Scott Moises TD 5 6x3


Rocky Fielding W Jamie Ambler PTS 6 6x3


Joe Selkirk W Terry Carruthers TKO 1 6x3


Callum Johnson W Lee Duncan PTS 4 4x3


Paul Butler W Anwar Alfadli PTS 4 4x3


John Loveday W Howard Daley PTS 4 4x2


Mike Stafford W Paul Morris PTS 4 4x2

hurlock wrote:I think clev can really fight. As you have stated his opponents for world title fights I can't imagine contesting ever again for world titles.
He got hurt faced a strong opponent & couldn't adapt & find a way to win. He needs a proper coach & set up & has the ability to bounce back

Bounce back to what? To winning against top 20-30 LHWs again? Because there is no bouncing 'back' to world level - he was never there. And unfortunately never will be. I'm not slating the lad, he's 50x the fighter I'd ever be, but does he want to knock around at Euro level? He's a good clear step worse than any world class fighter.

sharpei_louis wrote:
Bounce back to what? To winning against top 20-30 LHWs again? Because there is no bouncing 'back' to world level - he was never there. And unfortunately never will be. I'm not slating the lad, he's 50x the fighter I'd ever be, but does he want to knock around at Euro level? He's a good clear step worse than any world class fighter.

I think you are right.... i was blaming FW for the inactivity and lack of experience and the poor opponents faced..but maybe FW knew deep down the level of Nathan... and picked fights accordingly... as i far i am aware kovalev became mandatory so the fight had to be taken...

and i might not make any friends but the same can be said for Bellew imho who is nowhere near world class so Nathan loss could be ominous sign for Bellew....

He looked almost skinny compared to kovalev physically it looked like a boy versus a man

MachoMan09 wrote:Say what you like about Warren (and Powell) but they seldom get it wrong when judging a fighter's real potential. I don't think either will be in the least bit surprised that Clev got rinsed last night.

So are you saying that they wanted him to get beat ? or were they just hoping he would somehow pull it off?

I think all the talk of 'bouncing back' and 'rebuilding' is testament to the overpromotion this man has been given. Noone really talked about guys like James Hare or Steve Roberts 'bouncing back', what's different here? I guess that paper title really does make believers out of some people. As Macho said, Clev is probably better off doing something with his Maths degree, he might well make more money than he will in the ring.

Clev needs a 'proper' trainer!

frankgreaves wrote:Clev needs a 'proper' trainer!

Too late IMO.

I was ringside to watch him win his 'title', wasn't impressed, have not watched any of his fights since and am not surprised at what happened last night.

I don't dislike him but he was moved too carefully, matched very softly and then Warren threw him in with a very hard man. It was not a shrewd move. Who's Warren's biggest draw now? Chisora?

Riddick Blowe wrote:I think all the talk of 'bouncing back' and 'rebuilding' is testament to the overpromotion this man has been given. Noone really talked about guys like James Hare or Steve Roberts 'bouncing back', what's different here? I guess that paper title really does make believers out of some people. As Macho said, Clev is probably better off doing something with his Maths degree, he might well make more money than he will in the ring.

I never got all this interest over his Maths degree. What did he even get? A 2.2? What can you even do with a degree in Maths? He needs to get back on the horse and carry on fighting.

clopixolacuphase wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:I think all the talk of 'bouncing back' and 'rebuilding' is testament to the overpromotion this man has been given. Noone really talked about guys like James Hare or Steve Roberts 'bouncing back', what's different here? I guess that paper title really does make believers out of some people. As Macho said, Clev is probably better off doing something with his Maths degree, he might well make more money than he will in the ring.

I never got all this interest over his Maths degree. What did he even get? A 2.2? What can you even do with a degree in Maths? He needs to get back on the horse and carry on fighting.

A 2.2 in maths from Cardiff is pretty decent. Could get on a PGCE on the back of it, he would never be short of work.

Worth a lot more than a first in Media Studies from Middlesex.

clopixolacuphase wrote:I was ringside to watch him win his 'title', wasn't impressed, have not watched any of his fights since and am not surprised at what happened last night.

I don't dislike him but he was moved too carefully, matched very softly and then Warren threw him in with a very hard man. It was not a shrewd move. Who's Warren's biggest draw now? Chisora?

Warren's got Chisora, Saunders, Gavin, 3 of the Smith brothers, Butler, Buglioni, Cleverly, Bradley Saunders, Mitchell Smith, Gethin, Neil Dawson, Scott Harrison, Heffron, Callum Johnson, Enzo, McKenzie, Liam Walsh, Joe Murray, Lewis Rees, Selkirk and Skeete. There's more but those are the names that stand out, so he's not short of fighters but has none at the top level. Wouldn't surprise me to see Denton Vassell sign with him either.

Fat Git wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:I think all the talk of 'bouncing back' and 'rebuilding' is testament to the overpromotion this man has been given. Noone really talked about guys like James Hare or Steve Roberts 'bouncing back', what's different here? I guess that paper title really does make believers out of some people. As Macho said, Clev is probably better off doing something with his Maths degree, he might well make more money than he will in the ring.

I never got all this interest over his Maths degree. What did he even get? A 2.2? What can you even do with a degree in Maths? He needs to get back on the horse and carry on fighting.

A 2.2 in maths from Cardiff is pretty decent. Could get on a PGCE on the back of it, he would never be short of work.

Worth a lot more than a first in Media Studies from Middlesex.

Yeah, with that PGCE he could be a Maths teacher. From 'world champ' to Maths teacher. The glamor! I'm sure he wouldn't be bitter every day of his life. Hey, maybe some sixth formers would crush on him? Never short of work, though! Nah, that's kind of cruel. Teaching is a worthwhile profession, just nowhere near what he would have wanted out of his life don't you think?

Media studies is the default course for a kid who wants to go to Uni but has no idea what they're interested in. It won't get you anywhere unless you do loads of work experience but it's OK if you want to have a fun time while you're young (I didn't do media studies at university by the way!) but getting a 2.2 or a third on a degree course, you might as well have not turned up to be honest. I don't know what he got I just pulled the mark out of the air as a joke. What did he get? Do you know?

expe wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:I was ringside to watch him win his 'title', wasn't impressed, have not watched any of his fights since and am not surprised at what happened last night.

I don't dislike him but he was moved too carefully, matched very softly and then Warren threw him in with a very hard man. It was not a shrewd move. Who's Warren's biggest draw now? Chisora?

Warren's got Chisora, Saunders, Gavin, 3 of the Smith brothers, Butler, Buglioni, Cleverly, Bradley Saunders, Mitchell Smith, Gethin, Neil Dawson, Scott Harrison, Heffron, Callum Johnson, Enzo, McKenzie, Liam Walsh, Joe Murray, Lewis Rees, Selkirk and Skeete. There's more but those are the names that stand out, so he's not short of fighters but has none at the top level. Wouldn't surprise me to see Denton Vassell sign with him either.

I know he's got a big stable still I was just wondering who his biggest draw was, and reading through that list I'm sticking with Chisora. I would make a point of watching Chisora fight, maybe Gavin and Saunders if the opponent was right. A lot of those names I couldn't even tell you what they look like, let alone what weight class they fight in. Warren used to have the big names, Calzaghe and Hatton, and now the 'names' in British boxing (Froch, Haye, Khan, Fury, Burns, Murray, Brooke, barker, etc) are with other promoters. Nobody Fwank has at the moment is PPV worthy, are they?

jameswilson wrote:I think we can accept easier voluntary defences if we know that the next mandatory challenger is gonna be a tough fight but when it's like 3 or 4 back to back poor voluntaries....well you know.

I agree, people seem to forget that even some of the most celebrated fighters of all time will have the odd Pudwill on their world title record.

clopixolacuphase wrote:

expe wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:I was ringside to watch him win his 'title', wasn't impressed, have not watched any of his fights since and am not surprised at what happened last night.

I don't dislike him but he was moved too carefully, matched very softly and then Warren threw him in with a very hard man. It was not a shrewd move. Who's Warren's biggest draw now? Chisora?

Warren's got Chisora, Saunders, Gavin, 3 of the Smith brothers, Butler, Buglioni, Cleverly, Bradley Saunders, Mitchell Smith, Gethin, Neil Dawson, Scott Harrison, Heffron, Callum Johnson, Enzo, McKenzie, Liam Walsh, Joe Murray, Lewis Rees, Selkirk and Skeete. There's more but those are the names that stand out, so he's not short of fighters but has none at the top level. Wouldn't surprise me to see Denton Vassell sign with him either.

I know he's got a big stable still I was just wondering who his biggest draw was, and reading through that list I'm sticking with Chisora. I would make a point of watching Chisora fight, maybe Gavin and Saunders if the opponent was right. A lot of those names I couldn't even tell you what they look like, let alone what weight class they fight in. Warren used to have the big names, Calzaghe and Hatton, and now the 'names' in British boxing (Froch, Haye, Khan, Fury, Burns, Murray, Brooke, barker, etc) are with other promoters. Nobody Fwank has at the moment is PPV worthy, are they?

Surely Frampton is his biggest draw?