BoxRec

....... just read this about one of my least favourite champions ever, someone here said that joes ability to change and adapt mid fight was one of his greatest weapons. OK I can agree having this in your locker is a game changer, see mayweather for example. Then it was said that Joe was a ko bang machine in his early days and later this adaptability allowed smarter hands, less devastation, smarter boxing and defenses of titles.

If this is true I will rethink my opinions of him being the flappy handed fight dodger he was. Nice twist to the Joe was shit, no he wasn't debate.

Any thoughts?

Joe was a BANGER in the ams. He lit fighters up with quick, heavy hands.

check out his 3 consecutive ABA runs on youtube. He stopped plenty of fighters with solid shots..

How many hand operations did he have ?

Joe knocked very good fighters silly both as an amateur and when he was on the way up; I remember watching him v Stinger Mason and he picked Mason up with a left cross, he dropped very hard Mark Delaney a few times and I do not think Mark has ever been dropped or really hurt amateur or pro; when Joe won the British he had 17 fights and had stopped 16 of them; only one man - Darren Dorrington went the distance with him in the 3 years before turning pro.

Best fighter we ever produced.

If his hands were OK, it would have been a real reign of terror.

Tom Ford wrote:Best fighter we ever produced.

If his hands were OK, it would have been a real reign of terror.

2 quite bold statements there like

macaca wrote:....... just read this about one of my least favourite champions ever, someone here said that joes ability to change and adapt mid fight was one of his greatest weapons. OK I can agree having this in your locker is a game changer, see mayweather for example. Then it was said that Joe was a ko bang machine in his early days and later this adaptability allowed smarter hands, less devastation, smarter boxing and defenses of titles.

If this is true I will rethink my opinions of him being the flappy handed fight dodger he was. Nice twist to the Joe was poo, no he wasn't debate.

Any thoughts?

He was told at 16 that he would never box again, he was never able to spar properly before fights, there were some that he went into without sparring a single round, he even pulled out of the Lacy fight 3 weeks before after hurting his hand before Enzo talked him back in to it. I think he'd be remembered a lot differently if he hadn't fought, because the opportunity wouldn't have come up again. That was why he slapped a bit at times, punching cleanly with the knuckles could break the hand easily.

Stopped Dean Francis, Glenn Catley and that US heavy champ who went down to light heavy(can't remember his name)

Coco wrote:Stopped Dean Francis, Glenn Catley and that US heavy champ who went down to light heavy(can't remember his name)

Chris Byrd.

is it unthinkable that he became the fighter he was because of his glass hand?
did the change in style perhaps enhance his performances at the higher level, later in his career

would a heavy handed calzaghe maybe have gone for the kill more, taken more risks seeking the finish and possibly have lost once or twice


it's just a theory, purely hypothetical and unprovable, but thought i'd throw it out there








(naw davie, yer talkin shite! )

davie wrote:is it unthinkable that he became the fighter he was because of his glass hand?
did the change in style perhaps enhance his performances at the higher level, later in his career

would a heavy handed calzaghe maybe have gone for the kill more, taken more risks seeking the finish and possibly have lost once or twice


it's just a theory, purely hypothetical and unprovable, but thought i'd throw it out there


(naw davie, yer talkin shite! )

It may have prevented him from falling in love with his power and forgetting to throw clusters. My have also encouraged him to view fights from the outside, as a boxing match rather than a fight. It's possible. He certainly worked hard on his speed and work rate. Maybe to compensate?

Tom Ford wrote:

Coco wrote:Stopped Dean Francis, Glenn Catley and that US heavy champ who went down to light heavy(can't remember his name)

Chris Byrd.

I still have doubts about whether Calzaghe fought Byrd.

Byrd denies it happened, Calzaghe never seemed to mention it, no one to my knowledge has given an account of the bout suggesting that they watched it, and the result was derived from a lone site which could have easily published inaccurate content. Maybe it happened, but I don't think that should be treated as a fact.

However, the point that supposed result is meant to support--Calzaghe had good power--is true regardless of whether the fight happened.

Coco wrote:Stopped Dean Francis, Glenn Catley and that US heavy champ who went down to light heavy(can't remember his name)

also stopped The Method Man Jason Matthews in the first round of the ABA semi finals one year

Anyone that puts Chris Eubank on their arse has my vote as someone who can punch!!

[quote="macacaIf this is true I will rethink my opinions of him being the flappy handed fight dodger he was.

Any thoughts?[/quote]

I wonder if you'd think he was flappy handed if you fought him in a carpark?
I'm only being tongue in cheek with ya fella. I used to work with a lad who said things like this. He didn't look like he could punch his way out of a paper bag yet he'd happily call one of Britain's greatest boxers of the past half century a slapper. :>

palooka wrote:Joe knocked very good fighters silly both as an amateur and when he was on the way up; I remember watching him v Stinger Mason and he picked Mason up with a left cross, he dropped very hard Mark Delaney a few times and I do not think Mark has ever been dropped or really hurt amateur or pro; when Joe won the British he had 17 fights and had stopped 16 of them; only one man - Darren Dorrington went the distance with him in the 3 years before turning pro.

I seem to remember in a documentary Joe saying he was insulted by 3 or 4 rugby types whilst out dining with his Mrs. They all got a slap (no pun intended!!!) when I say slap, I mean put over!

also - you're saying that 3 years leading up to turning over, JC stopped every single opponent bar one (and I'm guessing he was competing in the upper echelons of amateur boxing)? And then when 17(16)-0 as a Pro?? .......I never knew this! And people call him a slapper? That's not somebody I'd want to be slapped by.

Tom Ford wrote:

Coco wrote:Stopped Dean Francis, Glenn Catley and that US heavy champ who went down to light heavy(can't remember his name)

Chris Byrd.

Wow knew he beat dean and glen who I rated highly but stopped Byrd aswell he never seems to get his respect that's due, like him or not he is up there itch the best of them

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

palooka wrote:Joe knocked very good fighters silly both as an amateur and when he was on the way up; I remember watching him v Stinger Mason and he picked Mason up with a left cross, he dropped very hard Mark Delaney a few times and I do not think Mark has ever been dropped or really hurt amateur or pro; when Joe won the British he had 17 fights and had stopped 16 of them; only one man - Darren Dorrington went the distance with him in the 3 years before turning pro.

I seem to remember in a documentary Joe saying he was insulted by 3 or 4 rugby types whilst out dining with his Mrs. They all got a slap (no pun intended!!!) when I say slap, I mean put over!

also - you're saying that 3 years leading up to turning over, JC stopped every single opponent bar one (and I'm guessing he was competing in the upper echelons of amateur boxing)? And then when 17(16)-0 as a Pro?? .......I never knew this! And people call him a slapper? That's not somebody I'd want to be slapped by.

Before Eubank he was actually 22-0(21) as a pro and then dropped Eubank flat on his arse after 30 seconds, takes some serious power to do that. Jeff Lacy said he slapped before the fight, I wonder if he still says the same?

expe wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

palooka wrote:Joe knocked very good fighters silly both as an amateur and when he was on the way up; I remember watching him v Stinger Mason and he picked Mason up with a left cross, he dropped very hard Mark Delaney a few times and I do not think Mark has ever been dropped or really hurt amateur or pro; when Joe won the British he had 17 fights and had stopped 16 of them; only one man - Darren Dorrington went the distance with him in the 3 years before turning pro.

I seem to remember in a documentary Joe saying he was insulted by 3 or 4 rugby types whilst out dining with his Mrs. They all got a slap (no pun intended!!!) when I say slap, I mean put over!

also - you're saying that 3 years leading up to turning over, JC stopped every single opponent bar one (and I'm guessing he was competing in the upper echelons of amateur boxing)? And then when 17(16)-0 as a Pro?? .......I never knew this! And people call him a slapper? That's not somebody I'd want to be slapped by.

Before Eubank he was actually 22-0(21) as a pro and then dropped Eubank flat on his arse after 30 seconds, takes some serious power to do that. Jeff Lacy said he slapped before the fight, I wonder if he still says the same?

I'm not sure what's more impressive . 22-0(21) or dropping Eubank after 30 seconds....
p*sses me off when people say he was overhyped. He stopped a good few guys immediately the round following getting decked himself - he got knocked down big by Brewer too. Put over in the first by Jones and by Hopkins, went 12 with Sakio Bika with a damaged hand, won them all.
I know he didn't travel to the US and fight the top guys in their primes but still....
So when JC went 20-0 or whatever in Wales with the WBO......who was holding the IBF/ WBC and WBA. I know there was the German guy Ottke, who liked to stay in Germany.....but who were the top Americans and who/ if anybody/ ducked who??

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

expe wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote: I seem to remember in a documentary Joe saying he was insulted by 3 or 4 rugby types whilst out dining with his Mrs. They all got a slap (no pun intended!!!) when I say slap, I mean put over!

also - you're saying that 3 years leading up to turning over, JC stopped every single opponent bar one (and I'm guessing he was competing in the upper echelons of amateur boxing)? And then when 17(16)-0 as a Pro?? .......I never knew this! And people call him a slapper? That's not somebody I'd want to be slapped by.

Before Eubank he was actually 22-0(21) as a pro and then dropped Eubank flat on his arse after 30 seconds, takes some serious power to do that. Jeff Lacy said he slapped before the fight, I wonder if he still says the same?

I'm not sure what's more impressive . 22-0(21) or dropping Eubank after 30 seconds....
p*sses me off when people say he was overhyped. He stopped a good few guys immediately the round following getting decked himself - he got knocked down big by Brewer too. Put over in the first by Jones and by Hopkins, went 12 with Sakio Bika with a damaged hand, won them all.
I know he didn't travel to the US and fight the top guys in their primes but still....
So when JC went 20-0 or whatever in Wales with the WBO......who was holding the IBF/ WBC and WBA. I know there was the German guy Ottke, who liked to stay in Germany.....but who were the top Americans and who/ if anybody/ ducked who??

Calzaghe went down 4 times in his career, amateur or pro, once to Byron Mitchell who was taken out in the same round by a brilliant left hand off the ropes. Then to Kabary Salem and 2 first round flash knockdowns against Hopkins and Jones.

During Calzaghe's reign as WBO champion, 5 men held the IBF belt, Brewer, Ottke, Lacy, Berrio and Bute. He beat Brewer and took the IBF belt from Lacy, then gave it up rather than fight Stieglitz, who fought Berrio, lost, who then lost to Bute in the first defence a month before the Kessler fight.

10 men held the WBC belt in 12 reigns, Markus Beyer holding the title 3 times. They were, Reid, Malinga, Woodhall, Beyer, Catley, Thobela, Hilton, Lucas, Beyer, Sanavia, Beyer and Kessler. Of those, Reid lost the title 2 months after Calzaghe fought Eubank, Malinga, Catley and Thobela all lost the title in the first defence. Hilton was stripped without making a defence and Sanavia also lost it in the first defence. Only Eric Lucas managed to make 3 defences of the title until Beyer's third reign. Reid, Woodhall and Kessler were all beaten by Calzaghe, Kessler while still champion.

6 men held the WBA regular title in 8 reigns, Mitchell and Mundine both won it twice. They were, Liles, Mitchell, Girard, Mitchell, Mundine, Siaca, Kessler and Mundine. Mitchell's second reign ended in defeat to Ottke, who became the super champion for the next year before retiring. Liles only made 1 successful defence after Calzaghe became champion and Mundine only held the title when there was also a super champion, bar 6 weeks after Ottke retired until he lost it to Siaca, who then lost to Kessler in the first defence. He beat Mitchell in 2 rounds after Ottke beat him on a disputed decision and Kessler while he was still champion.

Overall, 20 men held the other titles at the same time as Calzaghe, he beat 6 of those. Ottke would never travel out of Germany and going there most fighters got robbed against him, including Robin Reid being warned for punching him in the face. Berrio lost the title in the first defence to Bute a month before Calzaghe fought Kessler, ruling both out of any potential fights. Mundine was never the true WBA champion and 6 men lost their titles without making successful defences. That leaves Beyer, who's only trip outside Germany to defend the title was a unification fight in Denmark with Kessler, Lucas, Liles and Girard. Liles only fought twice after Calzaghe won the WBO belt, losing the title to Mitchell in the second and Girard made just one defence before stepping up to light heavy.

Of the fighters Calzaghe didn't face, Ottke would have never left Germany, Liles only made one defence after he became champion, Beyer was unwilling to leave Germany, although more likely than Ottke. Girard moved up to light heavy after 1 defence. The Lucas fight could have happened though. Hopkins ducked Calzaghe, a deal was agreed in 2002 for a fight with Hopkins agreeing to a $3 million purse, the next day Hopkins asked for $6 million and was told where to go. He then skipped super middleweight completely after the Taylor fights, before eventually, fighting and losing to Calzaghe at light heavy.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:[quote="macacaIf this is true I will rethink my opinions of him being the flappy handed fight dodger he was.

Any thoughts?

I wonder if you'd think he was flappy handed if you fought him in a carpark?
I'm only being tongue in cheek with ya fella. I used to work with a lad who said things like this. He didn't look like he could punch his way out of a paper bag yet he'd happily call one of Britain's greatest boxers of the past half century a slapper. :>[/quote]

He would slap me silly in a carpark, ring or supermarket

You know what I mean by slapper guys

Jeff Lacy said after the fight that he slaps very hard. Was made into a joke. Joe is the greatest fighter to ever come out of the uk. There should be no doubt in that. Boxers get bad hands and that's part in parcel but end of the day he kept moving forward and ended up undefeated... Undisputed.. Super Middle and Light Heavyweight champion and genuinely the best in the World at both weights.. If his hands were fine would he have been even better? I think he would have.. He wouldn't have retired as quick and we would have seen him up at cruiserweight!! If people can watch some of his early fights he was unbelievable fast hands, great movement , good combination, excellent killer instinct and very heavy hands!! He would have beat Roy Jones Jnr and Hopkins... Prime for prime and obviously beat then anyway and convincingly!! He would have destroyed and toyed with Froch... And I believe he would have had too high of a work rate for Ward... He deserves a lot more credit than he gets on here!!

daviddee wrote:Jeff Lacy said after the fight that he slaps very hard. Was made into a joke. Joe is the greatest fighter to ever come out of the uk. There should be no doubt in that. Boxers get bad hands and that's part in parcel but end of the day he kept moving forward and ended up undefeated... Undisputed.. Super Middle and Light Heavyweight champion and genuinely the best in the World at both weights.. If his hands were fine would he have been even better? I think he would have.. He wouldn't have retired as quick and we would have seen him up at cruiserweight!! If people can watch some of his early fights he was unbelievable fast hands, great movement , good combination, excellent killer instinct and very heavy hands!! He would have beat Roy Jones Jnr and Hopkins... Prime for prime and obviously beat then anyway and convincingly!! He would have destroyed and toyed with Froch... And I believe he would have had too high of a work rate for Ward... He deserves a lot more credit than he gets on here!!

X 2

calzaghe was a real banger i think he won 21 of his first 22 fights by KO not bad for a slapper

stevedoc wrote:calzaghe was a real banger i think he won 21 of his first 22 fights by KO not bad for a slapper

He did. Bobby Jo Edwards took him the distance. Eubanks cousin. Chin like Chris as well... Saw him lose a dodgy decision to Michael Gale in Leeds.