BoxRec

Your man deserves enormous credit for tonight, dragging himself through 10 rounds of agony in a world title fight with a dislocated jaw. I couldn't do it and not many could, what a warrior.
So know that, i'm a big fan of ricky and what i'm about to say is in no way a critisism of ricky or his team, but ricky lost tonight.

Everyone on here knows it, no one with a pair of fully functioning eyes and even the remotest idea about the fight game thinks ricky won that fight.
and thats ok, because he had a dislocated jaw, finishing the fight alone deserves massive credit.

But as a regular poster on here, please do the right thing and accept your man lost.
the judges should be ashamed of thereselves and i lost a bit of respect in the post fight interview when you and hearns couldn't admit what everyone knows to be the truth and also wouldn't come straight out and give the guy a rematch.

i believe a fully fit, fully prepared ricky without a serious injury wins that fight. get your man ready, take him to the states and put this to bed, but for starters you need to admit the result was a shocker. no one will think any less of you and Ricky knows in his heart of hearts he's a very lucky man to still hold a world title

This thread won't end well (rolls eyes)

davie wrote:But as a regular poster on here, please do the right thing and accept your man lost.
the judges should be ashamed of thereselves and i lost a bit of respect in the post fight interview when you and hearns couldn't admit what everyone knows to be the truth and also wouldn't come straight out and give the guy a rematch.

Giving Beltran a rematch is far more important than admitting Burns lost.

Beltran needs to be given a rematch.

Ach god..... He broke his jaw in a fight. No sympathy. The decent thing would be to give Ray Beltran the belt before he gets on a flight home.

This thread won't end well, simply because the result was a joke. The Scottish Sven Ottke lives to fight another day.

Give the man the belt!

ThereByTheGrace wrote:Ach god..... He broke his jaw in a fight. No sympathy. The decent thing would be to give Ray Beltran the belt before he gets on a flight home.

This thread won't end well, simply because the result was a joke. The Scottish Sven Ottke lives to fight another day.

Absolute rubbish.

Horse wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:Ach god..... He broke his jaw in a fight. No sympathy. The decent thing would be to give Ray Beltran the belt before he gets on a flight home.

This thread won't end well, simply because the result was a joke. The Scottish Sven Ottke lives to fight another day.

Absolute rubbish.

Aye aye Horse, you lost the respect of many folk on here when you posted your rankings and asked for opinions, then told people to eff off when they disagreed with your opinions. Looking forward to September's rankings where you will have Burns at 2 and everyone slates you.

My opinion is my opinion. If you disagree fine with me!

ThereByTheGrace wrote:Aye aye Horse, you lost the respect of many folk on here when you posted your rankings and asked for opinions, then told people to eff off when they disagreed with your opinions. Looking forward to September's rankings where you will have Burns at 2 and everyone slates you.

My opinion is my opinion. If you disagree fine with me!

Burns has received one dodgy decision in his favour and you act like it's been going on for years. Your post was ridiculous.

As a Burns fan I can admit he lost but sadly (for Beltran) close rounds go to the home fighter on these kind of shows. We have seen these kind of fights so many times before, Burns scraped a few rounds whereas the rounds Beltran won were won convincingly which stick in the memory and make the decision look ridiculous. As I said, I believe Burns lost but some of the stick he's getting is shocking.
Horse is correct, its one dodgy decision and people are making it out as if Burns has been gifted every fight. If you agree to fighting away then you know you are up against it straight away. Thats just the way it is, ask Martin Murray or other British fighters who have suffered from the same injustice.

As for Burns, he needs work on some upper body movement in my opinion. He needs to start dipping, ducking and diving whilst covering up instead of just standing upright and stationary behind his guard. He is lucky to be blessed with extremely long forearms which give him a good shield but standing stationary inviting punshment from a big puncher like that is insane.

ThereByTheGrace wrote:Ach god..... He broke his jaw in a fight. No sympathy. The decent thing would be to give Ray Beltran the belt before he gets on a flight home.

This thread won't end well, simply because the result was a joke. The Scottish Sven Ottke lives to fight another day.

no one implied he needs sympathy, just respect for finishing the fight
and no one can blame him for the result, he didn't score it.

he lost, no one can argue that. but he will perhaps be on the wrong end of a dodgy decision at some point and no one will hand him a belt if it does. he can only accept it and move on

all i can hope for is his team and him can accept the result was wrong. hearns has effectively done that and burns seemed resigned to the fact. and then give beltran the rematch he deserves.

and as for hearns saying there is no money in the rematch in the states. it should be a case of doing the right thing and going over there... money shouldn't come into it

I cannot wait for the deluded gobshites reply! It's going to epic

cant say i appreciate the baiting of Billy here, Ricky is a brave lad lesser men would have quit on their stool. Neither Billy nor Ricky score the fight so lets have some perspective here.
Having said that they MUST give Beltram a rematch to retain credibility moving forward.
an injury like that is going to affect your performance chaps.

Cant believe this sport sometimes ...total disgrace , Burns got beat up,knocked down ,and the jaw broke and still kept his title
We all know why Burns will never fight outside of bonny Scotland

I don't see why Billy Nelson has to be dragged across the coals.

It's not like he is a judge.

I thought Billy did really well. Telling Ricky to pack in the smiling , this is your livelihood on the line.

Him squeezing that last round out of Burns saved his ass.

Yes he lost, but they could have quit and instead continued to play their hand and it paid off.

I don't understand the broken jaw as an excuse. It's not like he was a footballer or tennis player playing with this injury as a result of an accident.

He got his jaw broken by his opponent because he got caught and proceeded to get caught. If this affected his fight then too bad. Beltran did his job.

I wanted Ricky to win but this was a nonsense.

Anyone know why Sky did not post the punch stats after the fight ?

Emmseegee wrote:We have seen these kind of fights so many times before, Burns scraped a few rounds whereas the rounds Beltran won were won convincingly which stick in the memory and make the decision look ridiculous. As I said, I believe Burns lost but some of the stick he's getting is shocking.

This. I can't believe the number of people arguing that this is an international scandal; yes, it appeared to most people that Beltran had the better of the fight but it was one of those where he clearly lost rounds as well as winning some. I had him by a single point, so did many people at the time - so lets lay off the ridiculous suggestions that we've somehow moved to a mid 90s German Sportshalle shall we?

Tykemania wrote:

Emmseegee wrote:We have seen these kind of fights so many times before, Burns scraped a few rounds whereas the rounds Beltran won were won convincingly which stick in the memory and make the decision look ridiculous. As I said, I believe Burns lost but some of the stick he's getting is shocking.

This. I can't believe the number of people arguing that this is an international scandal; yes, it appeared to most people that Beltran had the better of the fight but it was one of those where he clearly lost rounds as well as winning some. I had him by a single point, so did many people at the time - so lets lay off the ridiculous suggestions that we've somehow moved to a mid 90s German Sportshalle shall we?

People saying Beltran only one by a point really shouldn't be watching the sport anymore ,all ricky did was run and wrestle/tie up for 8 of the 12 rounds.
Beltran pressed the action 8 of the 12 rounds , he bullied Burns from pillar to post, beat him up on the ropes,had him wobbled,knocked him down and broke his Jaw, yet fools wanna tell me Beltran only won by a round so didn't deserve it ? GTFOH with that B0LL0X , Beltran did everything in that fight.
I say again, ent it strange that no punch stats was posted at the end of the fight by sky ?

Beltram had it by 4 rounds for me. Utter bollocks that the poor sod goes home with nothing. I loved the way beltram told it straight in the intetview afterwards.
Ref not warning Burns for holding, politics, money, home fighter etc. Beltram was spot on and looked like a guy who knew his place in the corrupt world of boxing.

totally agree with last comment. I've mentioned in another thread ' How to score a round ' and from very near the ringside I had it 5 rounds each with 2 even and a point taken off Burns for the knockdown making it 115-114 Beltran.
Burns ,when on the ropes , has a superb defence in that he covers up well and twists from side to side as the punches come in. From my very good view hardly any clean shots were landed by Beltran in this situation ,although he WAS forcing the action. Likewise Burns' jabs were largely ineffective and he simply lacked power/strength.
My analysis of the judges scoring was (114-114 ) 6 - 5 -1 Burns with a point off for the knockdown. (115-112) 8-4 for Burns , which was certainly not how I seen it. (115-113) 6-5-1 for Beltran ( point off for the knockdown). So 2 judges and myself ( and I'm totally unqualified) were not far off in agreement. The USA judge was well out.
Some people suggest that the crowd can sway somebody if they get caught up in the atmosphere , but similarly if you're watching on TV the punches may seem to be having a greater impact than they actually are. I like to think I'm a fair judge and old enough not to be swayed by the crowd, but of course it's all down to opinions.
For what it's worth , this was not a robbery. It was a close fight with Beltran edging it in my opinion.
The answer is a rematch , and Burns has to consider taking on an experienced strength coach who can build him up without putting weight on. Apparently with the correct nutrition this can be possible.

G0mez wrote:I don't see why Billy Nelson has to be dragged across the coals.

It's not like he is a judge.

I thought Billy did really well. Telling Ricky to pack in the smiling , this is your livelihood on the line.

Him squeezing that last round out of Burns saved his ass.

Yes he lost, but they could have quit and instead continued to play their hand and it paid off.

Good post. This thread is pathetic.

Whatever you think of the result you have to remember that Nelson and Burns are not the judges.

dalcumly wrote:totally agree with last comment. I've mentioned in another thread ' How to score a round ' and from very near the ringside I had it 5 rounds each with 2 even and a point taken off Burns for the knockdown making it 115-114 Beltran.
Burns ,when on the ropes , has a superb defence in that he covers up well and twists from side to side as the punches come in. From my very good view hardly any clean shots were landed by Beltran in this situation ,although he WAS forcing the action. Likewise Burns' jabs were largely ineffective and he simply lacked power/strength.
My analysis of the judges scoring was (114-114 ) 6 - 5 -1 Burns with a point off for the knockdown. (115-112) 8-4 for Burns , which was certainly not how I seen it. (115-113) 6-5-1 for Beltran ( point off for the knockdown). So 2 judges and myself ( and I'm totally unqualified) were not far off in agreement. The USA judge was well out.
Some people suggest that the crowd can sway somebody if they get caught up in the atmosphere , but similarly if you're watching on TV the punches may seem to be having a greater impact than they actually are. I like to think I'm a fair judge and old enough not to be swayed by the crowd, but of course it's all down to opinions.
For what it's worth , this was not a robbery. It was a close fight with Beltran edging it in my opinion.
The answer is a rematch , and Burns has to consider taking on an experienced strength coach who can build him up without putting weight on. Apparently with the correct nutrition this can be possible.

I thought Beltran landed body shots all night while Burns was on the ropes; his defense didn't seem particularly effective (e.g. the Katsidis fight) to me at all.

Were you at the fight and if so where did you sit? It's hard to imagine that a fan at the event had a comparable view to the close-ups offered by various TV cameras; to experience that, and I think you need a very good view to be confident about whether one fighter was hitting the other in tight quarters on the ropes, you would probably have to be in the ring with the fighters. The shots offered by the cameras are clear, close, and not usually impaired by ropes or other objects, so I don't think this would generally distort one's perceptions as much or more than viewing from arena seats would. Moreover, it wouldn't fully explain why one fighter appears more effective than another.

SNG wrote:

G0mez wrote:I don't see why Billy Nelson has to be dragged across the coals.

It's not like he is a judge.

I thought Billy did really well. Telling Ricky to pack in the smiling , this is your livelihood on the line.

Him squeezing that last round out of Burns saved his ass.

Yes he lost, but they could have quit and instead continued to play their hand and it paid off.

Good post. This thread is pathetic.

Whatever you think of the result you have to remember that Nelson and Burns are not the judges.

I think someone as combative as Billy is always going to get this sort of attention. Barry Hearn openly said on twitter he had Beltran by 2. I've not watched the broadcast as I was at York Hall but if Nelson is in the corner saying 'you've got to win this last round' etc etc as they often do, its not wrong in principle (but obviously can be wrong in style and tone) to ask him for an assesment as a man who knows his stuff, of where he saw the fight. None of us are judges or refs but it would be a really quiet board if we just stuck to what we were qualified to talk about.

Horse wrote:

davie wrote:But as a regular poster on here, please do the right thing and accept your man lost.
the judges should be ashamed of thereselves and i lost a bit of respect in the post fight interview when you and hearns couldn't admit what everyone knows to be the truth and also wouldn't come straight out and give the guy a rematch.

Giving Beltran a rematch is far more important than admitting Burns lost.

Beltran needs to be given a rematch.

Beltran said in his interview after that he will only take the rematch in the states, can't see that happening.

Anzi wrote:

Horse wrote:

davie wrote:But as a regular poster on here, please do the right thing and accept your man lost.
the judges should be ashamed of thereselves and i lost a bit of respect in the post fight interview when you and hearns couldn't admit what everyone knows to be the truth and also wouldn't come straight out and give the guy a rematch.

Giving Beltran a rematch is far more important than admitting Burns lost.

Beltran needs to be given a rematch.

Beltran said in his interview after that he will only take the rematch in the states, can't see that happening.

It makes no sense there, he's not enough of a draw at home, if there's a rematch it shouldn't really be in Glasgow, but it may have to be for financial reasons because I can't see where else it could be.